I am also looking for a linux smart phone at the moment. I have not found many that don’t seem to be sold out, or aren’t quite there yet.

If I find anything promising I will edit.

Just for that, the next one I find is being sent to you for a fix! lol

Working on my game that I plan to release on Steam by the middle of October if all goes well, which has been my last 6 months or so. Still lots to do, but the code is tight without a single bug at this point so happy times there. haha

I have had nothing but issues attempting to use AI to help with code. The amount of times it has given me something clearly incorrect, and I am not very experienced to be able to identify “wrong code” so easily, is way to high.

Whatever you say bud.

The difference is he’s trying to stuff his religious beliefs into a process that doesn’t need it.

I am not religious, and you are a bigot for assuming so. Not everyone who talks about religion is religious.

Morality is a product of evolution.

Yes, and spirituality is the point between “premoral behavior” in animals, and “morality” as a unified idea in us as I have argued.

If people aren’t suppose to discuss and possibly disagree, why post?

I am open to discussion and disagreement. Look around the thread and tell me how many opening comments you see promoting discussion or civil disagreement.

What do you think is the purpose of the showerthoughts community?

To share “Shower thoughts”.

Crazy concept I know.

This is shower thoughts and you are responsible for your own “rage” you feel I “baited” because you are too ignorant to entertain any idea you don’t understand. Which is the problem, you don’t understand and you are mad about it so you shoot the messenger.

Ignorant humans sure like to hide behind emotional response instead of using logical thought.

Glad my post found some common ground with your existence.

Yes. Poking and prodding everything with no mind for repercussion is unethical, and that is where “Science” is rooted.

Now jog on.

You should find something better to do than being a troll.

Yes, because context matters. Exceptions don’t make the rule, and speaking generally about things is allowed when they are related.

If you want to get into the semantics feel free. My statement is broad because it is a “shower thought”.

This isn’t debate club.

Why do you think the context of the testing doesn’t matter?

Scientific study is by nature unethical because one must do unethical things in it’s pursuit. We have ethical frameworks around Scientific Study for a reason, and it isn’t because it was doing fine without those frameworks.

Can you tell me what goes in to the Science of birdsong? I am unfamiliar with the field and expect you to be able to give me a detailed response on what goes in to it as it is your example.

You are missing the point and I won’t restate what was already stated explicitly.

You could’ve said “science is unethical by nature”, or “science is, by nature, unethical”, with commas. Those would be well formulated sentences, which would be easier to read and make sense of.

You understood exactly what I meant.

About the questions: do you oppose all ethical guidelines in science? Are there any you’re fond of? Or should science be completely unimpeded, regardless of who it damages, or what purpose it serves? Can you give any examples?

I don’t oppose ethical guidelines because they are required to keep Scientific Study in check. I never stated that Science did not need ethical frameworks, I said they are detrimental to Scientific Study. Ethical frameworks hold back Study because of the damage it can do. That doesn’t mean progress is not slowed because of those safe guards.

If Scientific study is ethical, why do we require ethical frame works to keep Scientific study from being unethical?

As I said, very questionable.

It is only questionable because of the numerous assumptions you made about me as a person, followed by engaging me in bad faith because of those assumptions.

I think I’ve keyed into your phrasing, particularly “precursor”, in my answer. If “premoral behaviour” is a step in developing morality, does that make it a precursor?

Yes.

What happens between premoral behaviour and morality that develops it?

Mysticism and spirituality is what is between “premoral behavior” and “morality”.

I would have assumed that reward/punishment behaviours between humans socially based on those “premoral” behaviours I described would have led to more nuanced moral systems that would have then been written into religious and spiritual practices.

What do you think happens between premorality and morality?

We had spiritual practices before written word. These were kept through oral histories.

I see the path to the idea of morality like this:

Once a species begins to show “premoral behaviors” (Things like demonstration of altruism to other members of the species) overtime these behaviors ingrain into that specific population of the species. However, these animals will still go against those behaviors and will require as you said a “reward/punishment” system. This helps to reinforce those behaviors within that specific group.

This will work for a few dozen people, but even then there would be dissent and disagreement over what is and isn’t acceptable leading to violations of rules in place. The consequence is violence.

What I believe was needed to get past this point and have larger groups of humans work together was an idea that being “good” was “bigger than us”. Spirituality is that step from “rules” to “morally correct”. Without the idea of something bigger making the rules and declaring actions “good”, we are simply making rules that other agree and disagree with that require enforcement through violence.

Which isn’t to say that Religion isn’t a history of violence and disagreement, but there is a difference between “Rule enforced by Man” and “Rule enforced by an all powerful being” when trying to get a group of people to act “appropriately” in precivilization humans. “I can kill you if I disagree, but this “God” thing sounds like I don’t want a piece of that”.

does a higher power give us our morals?

No. All evidence suggest there is no God, no afterlife, and nothing special about our species beyond becoming smart enough to kill ourselves.

I know what ethical means. Do you know what asinine means?