What’s your go too (secure) method for casting over the internet with a Jellyfin server.
I’m wondering what to use and I’m pretty beginner at this
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I see everyone in this thread recommending a VPN or reverse proxy for accessing Jellyfin from outside the LAN. While I generally agree, I don’t see a realistic risk in exposing Jellyfin directly to the internet. It supports HTTPS and certificates nowadays, so there’s no need for outside SSL termination anymore.
In my setup, which I’ve been running for some time, I’ve port-forwarded only Jellyfin’s HTTPS port to eliminate the possibility of someone ending up on pure HTTP and sending credentials unencrypted. I’ve also changed the Jellyfin’s default port to a non-standard one to avoid basic port-scanning bots spamming login attempts. I fully understand that this falls into the security through obscurity category, but no harm in it either.
Anyone wanna yell at me for being an idiot and doing everything wrong? I’m genuinely curious, as the sentiment online seems to be that at least a reverse proxy is almost mandatory for this kind of setup, and I’m not entirely sure why.
It feels like everything is a tradeoff and I think a setup like this reduces the complexity for people you share with.
If you added fail2ban along with alert email/notifications you could have a chance to react if you were ever targeted for a brute force attempt. Jellyfin docs talk about setting this up for anyone interested.
Blocking IP segments based on geography of countries you don’t expect connections from adds the cost of a VPN for malicious actors in those areas.
Giving Jellyfin its own VLAN on your network could help limit exposure to your other services and devices if you experience a 0day or are otherwise compromised.
Fail2ban isn’t going to help you when jellyfin has vulnerable endpoints that need no authentication at all.
You remember when LastPass had a massive leak and it out of their production source code which demonstrated that their encryption security was horrible? That was a Plex vulnerability. All it takes is a zero day and one of the packages they’re using and you’re a prime target for ransomware.
You can see from the number of unauthenticated processes in their security backlog that security really has been an afterthought.
Unless you’re running in a non-privileged container with read only media, I definitely would not put that out on the open network.
The issue is not encryption, it’s the unauthenticated API. People can interact with your server without an account.
Specifically these issues: https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin/issues/5415
The big one is that video/audio playing endpoints can be used without authentication. However, you have to guess a UUID. If Jellyfin is using UUIDv4 (fully random), then this shouldn’t be an issue; the search space is too big. However, many of the other types of UUIDs could hypothetically be enumerated through brute force. I’m not sure what Jellyfin uses for UUIDs.
Jellyfin has a whole host of unresolved and unmitigated security vulnerabilities that make exposing it to the internet. A pretty poor choice.
And which one of those are actually vulnerabilities that are exploitable? First, yes ofc unauthenticated endpoints should be fixed, but with those there is no real damage to be done.
If you know the media path then you can request a playback, and if you get the user ids then you can get all users. That’s more or less it.
Good? No. But far from making it a poor choice exposing it.
These are all holes in the Swiss cheese model.
Just because you and I cannot immediately consider ways of exploiting these vulnerabilities doesn’t mean they don’t exist or are not already in use (Including other endpoints of vulnerabilities not listed)
This is one of the biggest mindset gaps that exist in technology, which tends to result in a whole internet filled with exploitable services and devices. Which are more often than not used as proxies for crime or traffic, and not directly exploited.
Meaning that unless you have incredibly robust network traffic analysis, you won’t notice a thing.
There are so many sonarr and similar instances out there with minor vulnerabilities being exploited in the wild because of the same"Well, what can someone do with these vulnerabilities anyways" mindset. Turns out all it takes is a common deployment misconfiguration in several seedbox providers to turn it into an RCE, which wouldn’t have been possible if the vulnerability was patched.
Which is just holes in the swiss cheese model lining up. Something as simple as allowing an admin user access to their own password when they are logged in enables an entirely separate class of attacks. Excused because “If they’re already logged in, they know the password”. Well, not of there’s another vulnerability with authentication…
See how that works?
Wireguard vpn into my home router. Works on android so fire sticks etc can run the client.
Nginx in front of it, open ports for https (and ssh), nothing more. Let’s encrypt certificate and you’re good to go.
I would not publicly expose ssh. Your home IP will get scanned all the time and external machines will try to connect to your ssh port.
fail2ban with endlessh and abuseipdb as actions
Anything that’s not specifically my username or git gets instantly blocked. Same with correct users but trying to use passwords or failing authentication in any way.
Youve minimized login risk, but not any 0 days or newly discovered vulnerabilites in your ssh server software. Its still best to not directly expose any ports you dont need to regularly interact with to the internet.
Also, Look into crowdsec as a fail2ban replacement. Its uses automatically crowdsourced info to pre block IPs. A bit more proactive compared to abuseipdb manual reporting.
They can try all they like, man. They’re not gonna guess a username, key and password.
Doesn’t take that to leverage an unknown vulnerability in ssh like:
That’s why it’s common best practice to never expose ssh to raw internet if you can help it; but yes it’s not the most risky thing ever either.
If you’re going to open something, SSH is far, far more battle-tested than much other software, even popular software. Pragmatically, If someone is sitting on a 0-day for SSH, do you genuinely think they’re gonna waste that on you and me? Either they’re gonna sell it to cash out as fast as possible, or they’ll sit on it while plotting an attack against someone who has real money. It is an unhealthy level of paranoia to suggest that SSH is not secure, or that it’s less secure than the hundreds of other solutions to this problem.
Here is my IP address, make me eat my words.
2a05:f6c7:8321::164 | 89.160.150.164Are you giving random strangers legal permission to pentest you? That’s bold.
I linked a relevant vulnerability, but even ignoring that, pragmatically, you feel they’d be targeting specific targets instead of just what they currently do? (That, by the way, is automating the compromise of vulnerable clients in mass scale to power botnets). Any service you open on your device to the internet is inherently risky. Ssh best practices are, and have been since the early days, not to expose it to the internet directly.
You did link a vulnerability! That is true. I didn’t claim SSH had a clean track record, I claimed it had a better track record than most other software. That vulnerability is hard to exploit, and generates a lot of noise if you were to try, which nobody has because it’s never been found in the wild.
People who sit on 0-days for critical software like SSH don’t go out and try to mass-exploit it because it will be found within the day and patched within the week once they start making noise. This is not a quiet exploit. If they’re smart, they sell it. If they’re ambitious, they build an elaborate multi-chain attack against a specific target. Only 0.14% of devices vulnerable to this exploit are EoL versions of OpenSSH, so once this was patched, it was no longer a useful attack vector.
It would also have been completely negated by fail2ban, which is prominently deployed on internet facing SSH, as it required thousands and thousands of connection attempts to trigger the condition. It could also have been mitigated by not running sshd as root, though I understand that most people don’t want to deal with that headache even though it is possible.
There are thousands of independent honeypots that sit quietly and sniff all the mass-attacks and they earn their daily bread by aggregating and reporting this data. If you run a mass exploit, you will be found within the day. Trust me, I burned an IP address by regularly scanning the whole IPv4 space. You are going to end up on blacklists real fuckin’ fast and whatever you were doing will be noticed and reported.
If you’re going to open something, SSH is a very safe choice. But yes, don’t open it if you don’t need it. We are discussing how to open a service to the internet safely, though, so we need it.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Are we living in the same universe? In mine software doesn’t get patched all the time, in fact it’s usually a lack of patches that lead to any significant system compromise… Which happens time and time again. Also you’re on a thread that is advising hobbiests on how to configure and maintain their personal server, not the engineering meeting for a fortune 500. Yes, you can make ssh very secure. Yes, it’s very secure even by default. In the same regard, new vulnerabilities/exploits will be found, and it remains best practice not to expose ssh to raw internet unless absolutely necessary and with the considerations required to mitigate risk. Ssh isn’t even implemented identically on every device, so you literally cannot talk about it like you are. Idk why you’re arguing against the industry standard for best practices decided by people who have far more experience and engineering time than you or I.
You got balls to post you public addresses like that… I mean I agree with you wholeheartedly and I also have SSH port forwarded on my firewall, but posting your public IP is next-level confidence.
Respect.
Well, having a domain is basically documenting your IP publicly. It’s not that risky.
I remember that one. Those are pretty rare and usually involve a specific configuration that is often not the default, though, right? When such a vulnerability is found, is it rightly so major news.
“This race condition affects sshd in its default configuration.” direct quote from the linked article, paragraph like… 3. I linked it so people could read, not speculate.
Ah, now I remember. It took a quick configuration change to mitigate this. Still, I’d call this very rare.
I’m going side with @[email protected] on this one.
Agreed, but best practices are meant to deal with the very rare. They didn’t put the vulnerabilities in the software due to negligence or malice, it’s just an ever evolving arms race with cracks that show up due to layer upon layer of abstraction. Again I’m not saying to never expose ssh to the net, quite the opposite, but as a best practice you should never do it unless you fully understand the risk and are prepared to deal with any potential consequences. That’s just a core tenant of understanding security posture.
Sorry, misunderstanding here, I’d never open SSH to the internet, I meant it as “don’t block it via your server’s firewall.”
Change the port it runs on to be stupid high and they won’t bother.
Yeah hey what’s your IP address real quick? No reason
In 3 years I haven’t had a single attempted connection that wasn’t me. Once you get to the ephemeral ports nobody is scanning that high.
I’m not saying run no security or something. Just nobody wants to scan all 65k ports. They’re looking for easy targets.
Just nobody wants to scan all 65k ports.
Shodan has entered the chat.
Cool if I understand only some of things that you have said. So you have a beginner guide I could follow?
Take a look at Nginx Proxy Manager and how to set it up. But you’ll need a domain for that. And preferably use a firewall of some sort on your server and only allow said ports.
Also run the reverse proxy on a dedicated box for it in the DMZ
In a perfect world, yes. But not as a beginner, I guess?
It’s beginner level, the hard part is the reverse proxy, once you have a grasp on that just having it on a dedicated box in a segmented portion on your firewall designated as the DMZ is easy. Id even go so far as to say its the bare minimum if you’re even considering exposing to the internet.
It doesn’t even need to be all that powerful since its just relaying packets as a middleman
Nobody here with a tailscale funnel?? It’s such a simple way to get https access from anywhere without being on the tailnet.
I’m looking into it but I find that starting (or keeping open) Tailscale for music is not the best system.
I’m looking into building a shared Jellyfin library between friends
I’m trying to self host navidrome in docker with a cloudflare domain and reverse proxy on the same network. Still fiddling myself since I keep getting a 403 cloudflare no access error.
Essentially, using cert provided by cloudflare where they proxy to my ip. From there the reverse proxy routes to my service. If I’m understanding it right, anyone with my domain would only see cloudflare ip instead of my own. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I’m still learning this stuff as well.
Prior to this, I was using tailscale which worked fine but I’d have to connect via tailscale everytime and some instances, it wouldn’t connect properly at all.
I think my approach is probably the most insane one, reading this thread…
So the only thing I expose to the public internet is a homemade reverse proxy application which supports both form based and basic authentication. The only thing anonymous users have access to is the form login page. I’m on top of security updates with its dependencies and thus far I haven’t had any issues, ever. It runs in a docker container, on a VM, on Proxmox. My Jellyfin instance is in k8s.
My mum wanted to watch some stuff on my Jellyfin instance on her Chromecast With Google TV, plugged into her ancient Dumb TV. There is a Jellyfin Android TV app. I couldn’t think of a nice way to run a VPN on Android TV or on any of her (non-existent) network infra.
So instead I forked the Jellyfin Android TV app codebase. I found all the places where the API calls are made to the backend (there are multiple). I slapped in basic auth credentials. Recompiled the app. Deployed it to her Chromecast via developer mode.
Solid af so far. I haven’t updated Jellyfin since then (6 months), but when I need to, I’ll update the fork and redeploy it on her Chromecast.
What an absolute gigachad XD
Personally I use twingate, free for 5 users and relatively straightforward to set up.
I’m fidgeting with Tailscale right now, only to stream on a AppleTV at a friend house. So far no luck but that’s not me that set up Infuse, so could be an operator error on my friend part
for me the easiest option was to set up tailscale on the server or network where jellyfin runs and then on the client/router where you want to watch the stream.
for me i just needed a basic system so my family could share so I have it on my pc, then I registered a subdomain and pointed it to my existing ec2 server with apache using a proxy which points to my local ip and port then I opened the jellyfin port on my router
and I have certbot for my domain on ec2 :)
Who are you using for your domain? I was told if I used cloudfair they would ban me for having streaming traffic over their DNS.
You can use cloudflares DNS and not use their WAF (the proxy bit) just fine. I have been for almost a decade.
Use a reverse proxy (caddy or nginx proxy manager) with a subdomain, like myservice.mydomain.com (maybe even configure a subdir too, so …domain.com/guessthis/). Don’t put anything on the main domain / root dir / the IP address.
If you’re still unsure setup Knockd to whitelist only IP addresses that touch certain one or two random ports first.
So security through obscurity :) But good luck for the bots to figure all that out.
VPN is of course the actually secure option, I’d vote for Tailscale.
I just expose my local machine to the internet, unsecured
Thanks stranger over the internet seems like the best option.
I just install tailscale at family houses. The limit is 100 machines.
Wireguard.
Tailscale - funnel
Just that
Cheap VPS with Pangolin for Wireguard and reverse proving through the tunnel.
