Hmm, I have kinda opposite opinion, hardware is pretty good, build quality is great, but the OS itself is meh. File manager is bad and clunky, desktop customization is very limited, network manager is buggy, especially with VPNs, no built-in functionality to import VPN config files like in Linux. Also, I used it for years and still couldn’t get used to all the shortcuts and "Mac-way"s of doing things. Just not for me perhaps. Not bad, but in terms of UX worse than both Windows and Linux for me.
I’m the opposite of both of you. The build quality is good and the OS is good. I love having a familiat UNIX system while also having a polished desktop environment that supports 4k scaling very well (though the polish has been lacking a lot lately)
The issue for me is the insane price of their computers and the fact that you can’t (officially) install MacOS on your own hardware. I have a Linux desktop and a MBP but I’d run MacOS on both if it was officially supported
Modern Mac hardware is excellent. The software is good too, but’s more a matter of taste. Not everybody likes how macOS works but Asahi Linux has made incredible progress so it’s a daily driver option for some already.
Mac hardware is a fucking atrocity. $2k for a “pro” laptop with 8GB RAM and 256GB storage and no i/o except 4 USBC ports, that’s completely and intentionally irreparable and unupgradeable? SSDs and RAM that are marked up 3000%? That’s what you call “excellent”? It’s fucking gaslighting. You’ll never convince me it’s anything other than a cult.
What’s easier in Windows compared to Linux? Except the fact that you have to install it, since it doesn’t come preinstalled on as many PCs. But many people who think Windows is easy would probably still consider installing it difficult.
Application support; some popular software is built with Windows in mind.
One-click installers; Software usually comes with user-friendly installation wizards. No command lines or dependency juggling. Also better compatibility woth past versions
Driver availability; Linux is getting better, but Windows is superior
Better peripheral support like for printers, webcams, game controllers.
Gaming performance; although Linux is gaining ground, Windows is just better in this regard
Media codecs and formats; again, Linux is getting better, but this isn’t always an out-of-the-box experience
Business integration; Windows plays nicely with enterprise tools like Active Directory, Microsoft 365, and legacy business apps.
Don’t get me wrong. I use Linux as my daily driver. That also means I get frustrated on occasion when again I must consult man pages instead of just running a troubleshooter or fiddling with Nvidia drivers instead of just running the game.
installation of software on Linux is very bad. Literally everything else on Linux is very ready for the mass market, but installing apps is horrible to the point of making the whole OS not ready for the general public
That would be totally true if every software was distributed as a flatpak and every distro had flatpak enabled in the package manager out of the box. That’s just not reality.
Most of them are bundled terribly, forcing you to use flatseal or similar to make it work - way to much to do and understand for the average user
Roughly half of all the programs I install are flatpaks, and the other half are appimages. They both largely work the same, but the fact that there’s a difference will be crippling to the average user. Especially if you ask them to choose between one or the other
Believe it or not, a lot of people are not comfortable with the app store mentality flatpak seems built around. Googling “chrome download” is far more ingrained in the average person. Aside from browsers and projects of similar scope, this is difficult to achieve on linux
Can 800 year old grandma Doris use the feature? Can the average person who writes comments on YouTube videos? Minion meme posting facebook aunts? If not, it’s not ready for mainstream.
While I agree with most of what you said, typical users won’t run into these issues unless they’re doing something more technical (e.g installing blender or something), in which case they can ask for help.
Can 800 year old grandma Doris use the feature? Can the average person who writes comments on YouTube videos? Minion meme posting facebook aunts? If not, it’s not ready for mainstream.
I don’t think these people can install Windows or are pros at using it either, and in which case it’s the responsibility of whoever installed the OS to guide them through it a little like I did with my parents (they’re in their 80s and they’ve been using Linux for the past five years just fine), and I imagine those kind of people to only care about browsing the web and maybe viewing a PDF every once in a while.
I’ve seen many a tech-illiterate people try to install things they want on their computer - games mostly. Steam is rather painless these days, thankfully. But things like Solitaire, or maybe some emulator (which admittedly requires a minimal technical knowhow, but see the “make an exe and give it to me” meme) will be difficult for the average user.
Sure, if it’s an older relative, they could ask you for help. On windows they’d most likely not have to.
I don’t think these people can install Windows or are pros at using it either
Just to be clear, I’m talking about a “What if” scenario where its possible to buy a computer with linux preinstalled, similarly to how you can buy one with windows.
it’s easier because they’ve been using it all their life. If they’d been using linux all their life, they’d say that windows was too hard to use, nod oubt.
Graphics drivers. I can’t say I ever had a graphics driver update in Windows that rendered my system borderline unusable, but I 100% blame Nvidia for me running windows until recently. I tried a dozen times over a decade and ended up back on windows when the Nvidia update trashed my system and I got sick of dealing with it.
Doing anything requires the memorization of thousands of commands that must be formatted perfectly and are specific to your distribution, into a black box that rarely provides any feedback at all, and when it does it’s extremely generic.
I’m sure my inbox will be blown up by delusional people claiming you don’t need it but it’s just not true.
The simple act of installing software is crazy complicated and different on every distro.
Hardware compatibility is a huge problem, fingerprint readers, WiFi, facial recognition, Bluetooth, etc. etc. Very few companies make computers with Linux compatibility being considered at all. Everything will have drivers day 1 on Windows and then they’ll trickle down to Linux a year or two later.
I dislike Linux the least but there’s no way I could recommend it to anyone who isn’t a giant nerd who likes fixing computers.
I don’t use Linux except on my steamdeck and even I know there are a bunch of distros that look and act (minus lots of the bad stuff) just like windows
Until Macs become cheaper or Linux becomes easier, Windows will remain the largest OS.
I would rather be set on fire and have it put out with shovel than use a mac.
MacOS isn’t terrible, only the hardware is.
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Hmm, I have kinda opposite opinion, hardware is pretty good, build quality is great, but the OS itself is meh. File manager is bad and clunky, desktop customization is very limited, network manager is buggy, especially with VPNs, no built-in functionality to import VPN config files like in Linux. Also, I used it for years and still couldn’t get used to all the shortcuts and "Mac-way"s of doing things. Just not for me perhaps. Not bad, but in terms of UX worse than both Windows and Linux for me.
I’m the opposite of both of you. The build quality is good and the OS is good. I love having a familiat UNIX system while also having a polished desktop environment that supports 4k scaling very well (though the polish has been lacking a lot lately)
The issue for me is the insane price of their computers and the fact that you can’t (officially) install MacOS on your own hardware. I have a Linux desktop and a MBP but I’d run MacOS on both if it was officially supported
Modern Mac hardware is excellent. The software is good too, but’s more a matter of taste. Not everybody likes how macOS works but Asahi Linux has made incredible progress so it’s a daily driver option for some already.
Mac hardware is a fucking atrocity. $2k for a “pro” laptop with 8GB RAM and 256GB storage and no i/o except 4 USBC ports, that’s completely and intentionally irreparable and unupgradeable? SSDs and RAM that are marked up 3000%? That’s what you call “excellent”? It’s fucking gaslighting. You’ll never convince me it’s anything other than a cult.
What’s easier in Windows compared to Linux? Except the fact that you have to install it, since it doesn’t come preinstalled on as many PCs. But many people who think Windows is easy would probably still consider installing it difficult.
Sadly, quite a few things. Here’s a few:
Don’t get me wrong. I use Linux as my daily driver. That also means I get frustrated on occasion when again I must consult man pages instead of just running a troubleshooter or fiddling with Nvidia drivers instead of just running the game.
installation of software on Linux is very bad. Literally everything else on Linux is very ready for the mass market, but installing apps is horrible to the point of making the whole OS not ready for the general public
What? When was the last time you tried Linux?
With flatpak, it’s usually a one-click process to install anything nowadays.
That would be totally true if every software was distributed as a flatpak and every distro had flatpak enabled in the package manager out of the box. That’s just not reality.
Except:
Can 800 year old grandma Doris use the feature? Can the average person who writes comments on YouTube videos? Minion meme posting facebook aunts? If not, it’s not ready for mainstream.
While I agree with most of what you said, typical users won’t run into these issues unless they’re doing something more technical (e.g installing blender or something), in which case they can ask for help.
I don’t think these people can install Windows or are pros at using it either, and in which case it’s the responsibility of whoever installed the OS to guide them through it a little like I did with my parents (they’re in their 80s and they’ve been using Linux for the past five years just fine), and I imagine those kind of people to only care about browsing the web and maybe viewing a PDF every once in a while.
I’ve seen many a tech-illiterate people try to install things they want on their computer - games mostly. Steam is rather painless these days, thankfully. But things like Solitaire, or maybe some emulator (which admittedly requires a minimal technical knowhow, but see the “make an exe and give it to me” meme) will be difficult for the average user.
Sure, if it’s an older relative, they could ask you for help. On windows they’d most likely not have to.
Just to be clear, I’m talking about a “What if” scenario where its possible to buy a computer with linux preinstalled, similarly to how you can buy one with windows.
it’s easier because they’ve been using it all their life. If they’d been using linux all their life, they’d say that windows was too hard to use, nod oubt.
Graphics drivers. I can’t say I ever had a graphics driver update in Windows that rendered my system borderline unusable, but I 100% blame Nvidia for me running windows until recently. I tried a dozen times over a decade and ended up back on windows when the Nvidia update trashed my system and I got sick of dealing with it.
On team green and running Bazzite with no issues
That’s more of an Nvidia problem than a Linux problem.
Doing anything requires the memorization of thousands of commands that must be formatted perfectly and are specific to your distribution, into a black box that rarely provides any feedback at all, and when it does it’s extremely generic.
I’m sure my inbox will be blown up by delusional people claiming you don’t need it but it’s just not true.
The simple act of installing software is crazy complicated and different on every distro.
Hardware compatibility is a huge problem, fingerprint readers, WiFi, facial recognition, Bluetooth, etc. etc. Very few companies make computers with Linux compatibility being considered at all. Everything will have drivers day 1 on Windows and then they’ll trickle down to Linux a year or two later.
I dislike Linux the least but there’s no way I could recommend it to anyone who isn’t a giant nerd who likes fixing computers.
I don’t use Linux except on my steamdeck and even I know there are a bunch of distros that look and act (minus lots of the bad stuff) just like windows