Homeplugs (ethernet over power) are fine for some things, but they add so much latency to the network.
Wired is so much better.
Homeplugs (ethernet over power) are fine for some things, but they add so much latency to the network.
Wired is so much better.
As a network guy: Ethernet over power lines can be fine, but you basically need to be an electrician, and have a working knowledge of how powerline Ethernet works before you can get there.
Even if you do, or stumble into a working setup by accident, you can absolutely end up with all kinds of bad things happening because power lines are notoriously bad with crosstalk and EMI, both on the wire and emitted from it.
If you absolutely cannot do rj45/Ethernet runs, and WiFi isn’t viable for whatever reason (or even if it is), look into MoCA. Thank me later.
It won’t cost you any more than powerline, and you’ll get a cleaner signal, more consistent performance, and overall a better experience.
In order of preference, I prefer the following connection options:
Fiber, not because it’s faster or better (there are many ways it’s actually worse than Ethernet), but because it’s almost impossible to interfere with, unless someone physically disconnects the cable (or breaks/cuts it). As long as the line is protected from damage, it will give the most consistent performance.
Ethernet, more robust than fiber in terms of physical disability, can be faster at propagating data (the time it takes to get from one end of the cable to the other), but only works over relatively short runs (100m or less, by spec), and it’s susceptible to alien interference and crosstalk. However, it is far more rugged than fiber.
MoCA is half duplex but shares a lot of the benefits of Ethernet. The main improvement here is that coax is commonly present in most homes already, while Ethernet is relatively uncommon in homes, so many homes are already wired in a way that works with MoCA.
Wi-Fi is also half duplex, it can go faster than Ethernet under the right conditions (which are almost impossible to achieve in real world conditions). Propagation is as fast as Ethernet but it has more overhead, and it is much more prone to interference from other Wi-Fi networks or other things operating on the same, unlicensed, bands.
Powerline should only be considered if all of the other options are disqualified for some reason.
Also, anyone using wifi extenders (not talking about mesh or anything, just actual Wi-Fi extenders), should probably not be doing that. Wi-Fi extenders are often just retransmitting the packets on the same wifi channel, which dramatically cuts the available bandwidth. You’ll end up with a stronger connection, but a much slower one.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
+1 for fiber. Also because there are really thin fiber cables available (like <1mm in diameter) and with a bidirectional transceiver you can literally run a cable in the corner of two walls and hide it with just some acrylic compound and paint.
Depends on the type of fiber and all that. It can be insanely complex.
But this is possible, yes.
My experience has been different. Wifi extenders were not very reliable. Wifi devices were better, but powerline extenders have been rock solid. Ping times are right in line with wired Ethernet too.
In my experience powerline extenders are a reasonable alternative to Ethernet for home users in places where running a cable isn’t an option.
You are the subset of people who happen to be in a situation where they’re working as they should. I’m going to guess that you’re not in North America, and live somewhere with 240v power outlets.
In any country that uses 120v, usually it’s split phase power, and if your powerline adapters are sharing a phase with something that’s inductive or crossing the split in the phase, generally they’re going to be rubbish. So you basically need a degree in electrical engineering to figure out what circuits are on what side of the split phase, and what is on each circuit that may be an inductive load, and could interfere, just for them to perform like they should.
There’s a whole lot more to it, and I’m simplifying a lot here, but that’s the overview of the problem.
With UK power circuits, there are fewer breakers and everything is fed from a single phase of 240v. That makes it much more likely that you’ll have a good experience with powerline. Just have to avoid the circuit with stuff like your air conditioner (if you have one) and stuff like the fridge, and generally you do quite well with powerline.
Ethernet is still better tho. Heh.
I have them installed in 2 houses, one 120V and one 127V. Electrical panels in NA are pretty simple (although not as simple as the UK) and have the 2 phases are split on the 2 sides of the box. The breakers for 120V or 127V circuits on the right are on one phase and those on the left are on the other.
The panel wiring wasn’t something I thought about when I put the power line adapters in and they were plug and play in both locations. I’m guessing some brands work much better than others and these Netgear adapters have worked flawlessly. Or maybe I got lucky.
That said, I’d have Cat6 cables installed if it didn’t require tearing apart the walls and ceiling.
Don’t know about the UK, but in central Europe it’s common for houses to get three phase power that can then be used on 400V three phase circuits and gets split (ideally evenly) into 240V circuits. And the fact that the phases have effectively zero coupling means that you also need to just try the adapter to find out if it’s going to work or not unless you happen to know how exactly your house is wired up, just like with split phase power.
Apartments usually get a single phase though, but IMHO it’s also less likely that WiFi won’t be enough there, so it’s questionable if that’s even a point for powerline.
Just to add that proper mesh systems are distinct from extenders as they will use separate mesh channels for back haul. They also have the “travel AP” things which act as extenders but form a new network on a different channel. You can actually do this with many Android phones as well.
This is the information I couldn’t really squeeze in without side tracking my entire point.
There are “good” extenders, that use different channels/radios, but the cheap ones people buy are not those.
+1 for MoCA
I switched from powerline to MoCA about 10 years ago, and it was a huge step up. Even though it’s half duplex, since MoCA version 2.5, there is enough total bandwidth available to sustain 1 Gbps in 2 directions simultaneously, so it is functionally almost equivalent to full duplex 1 gig Ethernet (except for few ms of extra latency)
great post!
What’s a moca?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moca
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance
Similar idea to powerline adapters, except over coax lines instead.
You’re quick.
Thanks for the assist. This is what I’m referring to.
Is it possible to use moca if I have cable internet? There’s coax in my office and living room, so it would be great if I could us them for moca. I know both are connected to the cable coming in to the house because I have set up my modem in both rooms to check which has better wifi coverage.
Yes, I was in this situation and I did exactly that. You need a splitter and then moca adapters in the rooms (a bit expensive at least 5-6 years ago where I lived).
There will be a Cable TV splitter where the coax comes into your house - possibly a basement or utility room. One cable in, several going out to the various rooms. If you put your modem there, then you can use all the coax runs in your house for MoCA networking.
There’s a utility box on an exterior wall labeled “Television”, which also has a bush planted in front of it. I don’t think I can put my router here… :(
So you don’t need that set up. Moca is well designed to be Omni-directional.
You do need to put a moca filter in that shitass box between the cable that comes from the outside world and whatever hellsplitting is going on in there. That’s to keep your personal moca network inside so peeps can’t snoop (it’s also encrypted) or cause interference elsewhere.
Note that you may need to update your splitters and coax wall keystones to be 1+ GHz friendly for Moca. I found where I am has “black” rings on the coax wall keystones that only did the regular cable freq and Moca failed to work. Replaced with modern “blue” rings that do the Moca freq range. And splitters involved in the routing too.
I have the line in inside, in a panel. It splits 3 ways, and I use that 3 way splitter as a “dumb switch”, replaced with a Moca friendly one. Moca filter between splitter and line in.
I have modem/router in living room, connected to a switch. Switch also connects to a Moca adapter. Computer in bed room, connected to Moca adapter. I get ballin’ 1 Gbps up and down at the same time (within my network of course, real internet speeds are ass
May these facts I typed from memory help you achieve your networking dreams :)
Yes. Just connect one moca adapter to your ISP’s modem/router via Ethernet. If the router already has a coax port you only need a single moca device at the other end. Then plug the coax cable into one of your home’s cable junction boxes. Your home’s probably got a cable splitter somewhere if you have more than one cable outlet. Unplug the cables you’re not using at the splitter. Now plug in another moca adapter at another cable junction box and wire that into Ethernet to distribute to your device, eg. Computer or network switch.
I think I follow. Top is how I have it set up now, bottom would be how I could do moca?
This is correct. You might want to look into a point of entry filter for MoCA, since you don’t want to share your Internet with your neighbors.
Last time I looked, which was a while ago, I couldn’t really find any, but hopefully that’s been sorted out in your area.
Basically the point of entry filter stops the signals from the MoCA link from crossing, so you would want to put that between the outside box and the first splitter.
I would say that WiFi is wonderful for those last few meters. A room with a wifi AP literally visible can perform fantastically for several devices in that room. It’s just that back-haul connection across the building back to the modem where WiFi should be down on the list like that. I keep seeing these “mesh” wifi access points that use 6ghz back-haul and shake my head. Better than just having a single access point, but probably asking for pain in most circumstances.
I have 3 access points in my house, where there’s no place where the signal has to go through more than 1 wall. They are fed via gigabit Ethernet back to the modem which acts as a 4th access point. That could be MoCA, and probably will eventually be fiber, but neither WiFi nor powerline would be fun for that. Wifi does short range great, whereas powerline is just a bad idea from the start.
Wi-Fi is convenient more than anything. You just have to know the right passphrase and as long as you are in range, you can get in… In most cases.
When it comes to WiFi, I’m a fan of many smaller and lower power access points vs a few high powered ones. This is rarely the case in residential situations though. Most people buy a single, high powered Wi-Fi in the form of a all-in-one wireless router, and call it a day, then almost exclusively use Wi-Fi and wonder why it sucks, then go buy a newer more powerful unit once one is available.
My motto is: wire when you can, wireless when you have to. Devices like laptops, tablets and phones, usually do not have Ethernet built in, or are too mobile to make it practical to use. Meanwhile anything that doesn’t move, like TVs, desktops, etc, need a wire run once, and it will work perfectly until the building falls over.
That’s a lot of return on the investment of running the cable once.
I usually prefer all home runs (everything going back to a central point) but networking is diverse, so using a cable to get to an area, then using a switch to serve that area is entirely valid. Just don’t Daisy chain too many switches or your going to have a bad time. Whether that link is copper, fiber, MoCA/coax, doesn’t matter… As long as it’s reliable and fast.
In any case, I have at least 8 access points serving my home, and they need to be moved, since I still have one spot that’s a dead zone.
What do you think of 2.5 and 10g Ethernet vs fiber between nodes in the home (I.e, between the modem and office switch, etc)?
I would agree with that, but here in the UK we dont have coax in every room
You only need the MoCA for the back-haul between distant wifi access points or ethernet switches, not in every single room. Unless your walls are made from literal sheet metal, a wifi signal should get through at least one, and ethernet cables along the baseboard and under a doorway are fine too.
This is the way.
Alien interference? What does that term mean here, or are you joking? I’ve not come across this in networking before.
Alien can be boiled down to simply meaning “foreign”. As in, not coming from the wire bundle that is used for the connection.
Crosstalk is the term usually used for interference coming from other pairs in the same bundle, which should be minimal due to the electrical/magnetic properties associated with twisted pair.
Alien interference is any inference from an outside source, usually by inducing a current on the Ethernet pairs, that shouldn’t be present. Usually this results in corruption of the data in transit or a failure to sync (and establish a connection at all).
No extra terrestrial interference was meant to be implied; though, I’m not excluding the extra terrestrials from creating interference; I’m sure if such beings exist and are here, they could interfere, but that wasn’t the intention of my statement.
Alien inference is a very common term in wireline networking. I’m surprised you haven’t heard it.
Alien meaning “external”.
Electrical interference can come from all kinds of places, near and far. I guess technically you might get interference from other planets but I don’t think that’s what they meant. :) Solar flares are a possibility, though.