Would block new data center builds until other regulations are passed
  • Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5 hours

    I’m not necessarily in favor of data centers. That said, every time I see something like this I just wonder when we are going to start hearing about data centers being built in poor countries powered exclusively by coal and zero regulation. I really have no idea what a good outcome looks like but playing ultra hardball seems unwise. I’m very poorly educated on data centers and AI in general. But, I am an expert in electrical generation. I know we could do it pretty clean, at least relative to coal/heavy oil. I don’t think stopping data centers built in the US will magically cease the boulder rolling in the AI direction. Seems like the money is at its back so its going to happen, just a matter of when, where and how dirty.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.caEnglish
      45 minutes

      The US will soon be the poor country that’s powered by coal and zero regulation.

    • acosmichippo@lemmy.worldEnglish
      40 minutes

      My understanding is natural gas is cheaper than coal nowadays because the waste heat can be captured and reused.

    • gibmiser@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 hours

      Prohibit them from producing their own electricity. Force them to invest in and use renewables.

      • Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1 hour

        How would that look? Wouldn’t inventing in and using renewables be producing their own electricity? Or do you mean force them to be tied to the grid but also force them to force the grid to use renewables.

    • Brkdncr@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5 hours

      It’s pretty easy to regulate this:

      • Closed loop cooling
      • grid upgrade built into design plans, paid for by the datacenter.
      • cleaner power generation
      • officermike@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4 hours

        I’d say your list is a bit too short. Some more considerations (not comprehensive):

        • Construction noise and seismic limits (nearby neighborhoods have been disturbed and experienced damage from blasting operations)
        • Operating noise limits (ban on-site gas turbine generation, limit noise levels from cooling towers)
        • Limit light pollution

        Edit:

        • Job protections and guarantees for workers displaced by automation
        • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 hours

          Data centers ought to only be allowed in rural areas to begin with. Even if the noise/vibration/heat/etc. weren’t an issue they’re still a goddamn hole with zero foot traffic, and that’s just bad urbanism. They’re like public storage warehouses, but even worse.

          They need access to the Internet backbone, but that doesn’t mean they have to be in cities. Put 'em somewhere along the fiber halfway between.

        • Brkdncr@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 hours

          Datacenters aren’t responsible for workers displaced by automation.

          Construction and noise aren’t special to datacenters and don’t need special regulation.

          • Sanguine@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            2 hours

            On this particular topic, the more red tape the better. These companies are shady and will find any loophole available to circumvent any protection the current laws are meant to provide.

            • Brkdncr@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1 hour

              That’s how you end up getting republicans elected into local office: by putting up unnecessary or complicated barriers.

              Additionally, I believe we’ll be in a really bad situation in the next 10-25 years in regards to access to advanced CPUs. The more we onboard now the more we’ll have later.

              It’s also a concern of national security if we put up enough barriers that people and companies put their resources in datacenters in other countries that can’t defend them against attack.

                • Brkdncr@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  56 minutes

                  I try to be realistic. I dream of having every thing perfect to my liking but then I look at my neighbors and understand that we have to live together somehow.

        • BorgDrone@feddit.nlEnglish
          3 hours

          Job protections and guarantees for workers displaced by automation

          Jobs are a necessary evil, not a goal in itself. The goal should be to eliminate all jobs.

          Until that time we should figure out a better way to share the burden of the work that nerds to be done as well as better way to distribute resources. Trying to preserve jobs is not the way.

        • Hackworth@piefed.caEnglish
          4 hours

          I have first-hand experience living near a source of infrasound, and oh my god, it’s terrible. Here’s a good video about the infrasound generated by data centers.

    • Zarxrax@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5 hours

      I think there are definitely ways to do these data centers that have minimal external impacts, but it costs money and time, and they are trying to rush these through as fast as possible.

    • its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      5 hours

      You basically understand what the people with a vested interest in making AI happen want you to know. The truth is that AI is already starting to crumble. It’s a technology that doesn’t do 99% of the things it’s perported to do, and will never do 90% of what they sold it on.

      • Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5 hours

        Yeah I’m not versed in the subject enough to say/think you’re wrong necessarily. I do know the general slant Lemmy’s population has against it though.

        • its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          52 minutes

          Just simply ask yourself, why are all the AI companies discussing going public now? I hope you would agree that AI as it currently stands is far from the human brain replacement it was sold as. Outside of a few very specialized fields it’s basically an email generator. They’re out of training data for all intents and purposes. AI generated content is so ubiquitous now that you can’t use most data moving forward without painstakingly checking it all, and AI is becoming increasingly harder to distinguish cheaply or easily. The widespread adoption has poisoned the well. So AI is as advanced as it’s going to be, and it’s not worth its valuation. They’re all racing for the exit and IPOs are their last hope for their backers to sell and get out before the markets stop being irrational. I hope I’m wrong but that seems to be the writing on the wall.

          Edit: they’re also already posturing the current administration for a bailout deal.

        • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 hours

          Lemmy’s population is overrepresented by software engineers who know more about how LLMs actually work than the general public does. Let that sink in.

          • boonhet@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            3 hours

            Also a field disproportionately affected by it so still kinda biased

        • iamthetot@piefed.caEnglish
          4 hours

          GenAI as it currently stands is a fancy text predictor. You ever had your phone suggest the next word in a message you’re typing? It’s that, on crack.

          When you really wrap your head around the fact that that is all it’s doing, it loses a lot of its appeal imho. Especially for the cost to do so.

    • Jhex@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4 hours

      I’m not necessarily in favor of data centers. That said, every time I see something like this I just wonder when we are going to start hearing about data centers being built in poor countries powered exclusively by coal and zero regulation

      that’s exactly what they are doing right now

  • Deep@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    5 hours

    Nothing will change. This won’t get passed. It’ll all get brushed under the rug and the Democrats will keep the status quo as usual

  • BigMacHole@thelemmy.clubEnglish
    5 hours

    PROGRESSIVES introduced Legislation DIRECTLY to Help the Republicans they Talked to WEEKS earlier? I’m SURE Republican Voters will remember this during the next Election when they vote for Progressives! The EXACT Same people they Complain about!

  • PabloSexcrowbar@piefed.socialEnglish
    5 hours

    If the Democrats were willing to negotiate at all, this would be an excellent starting point. Sadly, they’re going to stomp their feet and hold their breath until the whole thing gets scrapped and we’re back where we started. Part of me wonders if that isn’t the point.