Encrypt-Keeper

They market on privacy and fail to deliver as I keep pointing out.

You haven’t pointed out a single way they’ve failed to deliver. They deliver on all of their marketing promises, and I have yet to see any proof to the contrary. You saying they failed over and over again is not proof.

"We do not retain full credit card details, we only save your name and the last 4 digits of the credit card number. " -Proton

So Proton is keeping only the bare minimum amount of information necessary? Sounds like something a company keen on privacy would do lol.

I am not a fan of any corporation, but to illustrate a point Mullvad VPN does not store this information on their servers at all.

Mullvad is a VPN service, they don’t provide private email services like Proton. Mullvad doesn’t need to keep any metadata because you’re not paying them to maintain or store your data. It is a transit system for your data, not a destination. You’re comparing apples and oranges.

The actual comparison you’d have to make is with other private email providers like Tutanota or Fastmail, both of which store the same payment metadata as ProtonMail, because they have to.

If you are going to pay for privacy, you should expect excellence. Not exactly what state law allows.

When I pay for privacy, I expect to receive privacy, and preferably the most privacy, and that’s what ProtonMail delivers quite successfully. Moreso than its competitors in fact, because I also understand that paying for a commercial service means that service is subject to the laws where the service resides, and Tutanota is in Germany, and Fastmail is in Australia/US.

Have you found any proof for your claims yet? You’ve had plenty of time now. If you can’t provide anything with your next comment I’ll be forced to determine that you just don’t have any, and that your only aim was to spread misinformation from the start.

I don’t like how they market to privacy when they do shit like store your credit card meta data on their server.

Did they market to not storing metadata? Of course not, they can’t lol. Neither can any of the other privacy focus email providers lol.

Other companies have solved this privacy problem

Have they though? Do you have any proof of this? If they’re taking credit card information, they are required to keep the same metadata. Not doing so would stop them from being able to process credit cards at all. You don’t know the first thing about the payment industry clearly lol.

They have already transitioned from famous to infamous for the amount of times they have failed their users

They have not. I can’t find one verifiable instance where they failed their users.

Security theatre is just that. Proton is just cashing in on the concept of security when they are aware that their own practices along with the industry at large prevents it.

They deliver on privacy and security in every way they feasibly can, and in fact all the ways they advertise. Do you have any proof to the contrary? You still have provided none.

Are you at any point going to provide an example of this so-called security theater, or any way that they’ve broken any promises, or failed their users? Or are you just going to keep yapping in a circle about nothing without providing any proof?

Proton uses privacy as a selling point and they deliver on it by providing you with a private email service.

If you would like to assert that they’ve broken some kind of promise they made to you in regards to privacy, then yes, you have to provide some sort of proof of that claim. If you believe that you don’t, it’s you that appears impossibly dumb I fear.

If you have a point to make about their marketing practices, then make it. If you can’t articulate a single problem you have with Proton then you’re just yapping and can be safely ignored.

I don’t need to provide evidence

You do lol. Otherwise you’re just yapping.

you can’t even accept basic facts.

I don’t think you know what a fact is.

You have failed to disprove my points in any meaningful way.

You’ve failed to prove your points in any meaningful way. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence and all that.

You ignored evidence that Proton has poor privacy practices

The evidence you failed to provide because in your own words, you “don’t have to”? Lol. Lmao even.

love how your only comparison is with big companies rather than small email providers or self hosting.

Oh no I compared small email providers. They have all the same limitations as ProtonMail will have. As for selfhosting, you don’t even understand the first thing about email, privacy, or OpSec. Selfhosting is entirely out of the question for someone like you.

But pretending people don’t have legitimate reasons to dislike the company is pretty ignorant.

I’m still waiting for a legitimate reason. I ask with an open mind every time I see comments like this but the answer is always the same, technological illiteracy and “bad vibes”, your comment included.

Speaking of funny, you read my comment saying how the bots complaining about privacy-forward services like Proton are always a result of ignorance and not understanding how technology or privacy work, and you were like “Hey that’s me, now’s my time to shine” lol

Proof of what?

engages in security theatre marketing to sell their service.

Proof of that.

This is self evident

It is not.

Every single email provider from Switzerland has to follow the law. Pretending their service has something over other services when they just follow the law is kind of ridiculous.

Good thing they don’t pretend anything like this and are very up front about following the law. In fact following the law is a large part of the marketing, which is just that Swiss law is less invasive than other countries, which it is.

If Proton just advertised we follow swiss law like every email provider in this country it would be accurate.

Which is exactly what they do. Where exactly is your problem again?

A great example of this is their recent credit card scandal where it was revealed that they they store meta data on transactions needlessly. They claim privacy, but yet they store your private information on their servers.

Of course they do? You’re literally paying them to? HELLO?

The truth is their service does not respect privacy in some regards.

See here’s your problem, you see the word “privacy” and attribute a bunch of promises to Proton that they haven’t made. They advertise a privacy friendly email service, and they do. You’ll get much more privacy using ProtonMail than something like Gmail or ICloud mail. You’re not going to achieve to 100% anonymity when using a protocol as old as email, on somebody else’s servers. That’s impossible and they never promised you that. You won’t find ANY email provider that will be as “Private” as you want them to be. You’re blaming Proton for not providing you with an imaginary product that doesn’t exist.

My issue is they pretend to be all about privacy, but then they store your personal information and it is YOUR fault.

It is your fault. Why is your ignorance anyone else’s fault? If you use Proton you will get far more privacy than using just about any other email hosting service, and on par with other privacy-centric email platforms. If digital privacy is this important to you, then devote SOME of your time to learning how to achieve what you want.

This is exactly what I’m talking about, you posting these vague aspersions with literally zero evidence backing it up. You’re literally the exact type of user I mentioned in my original comment. A non-technical end user pissed off because something you don’t understand doesn’t work in the way you imagined it in your head, because you don’t understand enough about email or privacy to form a cohesive opinion on the matter.

Like have it your way, just keep using Gmail and let them scan every line of every email in your inbox and feed it all to Gemini. Or switch to other of Proton’s peers and experience the same benefits and the same limitations you do with ProtonMail while deluding yourself into thinking you’re better off. But this rampant spreading of misinformation has got to stop eventually.

You say that, but nobody ever really has any proof. It’s always just vague aspersions (like yours) or misinformation spread by non-technical people who don’t really understand how any of the technology involved works, so they make assumptions and upset themselves when Proton can’t deliver on their imaginary assumptions.

I can practically see the unwritten half of your comment now: “Might as well keep using Gmail. Just consume. Don’t think”

Serious starting to wonder if all this vague, anti-Proton misinformation-posting isn’t just some Google-backed astroturfing campaign

That is the whole thing.

As it turns out Americans don’t like being sent to prison on felony charges

AC units without inverters specifically

Depends on exactly what about Skyrim drew you in? Do you want to be immersed in a fantasy world? The ability to roleplay a certain kind of character? Have distinct builds?

Because if you like an engaging, living open world there are so many games that do it so much better than Skyrim. The Witcher 3 comes to mind, but you’re stuck playing a specific guy with a specific personality and allegiance.

As far as roleplaying experiences go, Baldurs Gate 3 is unsurpassed if you want to roleplay a certain type of character and have people/the world react to the flavor of your character. But that’s a turn based combat game not an action one.

Skyrim in comparison never hooked me because unlike other RPGs and even its own predecessors, the game is so afraid of locking you out of content and giving you a reason to replay it, that you can sorta do everything, join every faction, and do whatever you want with little to no consequences to your actions or the world changing to those choices at all.

It’s not even a clone, it’s literally a rebadged HTC

I don’t think it’s a matter of Opera being untrustworthy as much as it is the fact that they’re a Chromium-based browser, same as Edge.

The AI didn’t choose to rate people 4 out of 5, it changed the scale so that 4 out of 4 was the highest rating.

So your proof is that the post has good grammar? Idk man

Moving the goalposts. You said they need to drop the fascist from their sponsorship and they did. They also committed to not doing it in the future. They did exactly what you said.

On top of that, companies are not your friends and they don’t need political positions. Not supporting fascists is perfectly adequate.

Well like you said they’re “Following that trajectory” but as we all know they have not reached that destination. Just today I was using the newest version of Opus and had it assign ratings to things between 1-5 and then it analyze them and it proceeded to rate everything on a scale of 1-4. That’s not the level of consistency and accuracy required by the controlling computer of a starship brother. I guess they have a couple hundred years or so to get there, if they don’t just run out of money first I guess.

Well I suppose when that trajectory leads to a destination where they become less easy to trip up we can revisit this.

I also explained how they very famously and regularly don’t get around that problem. They remain pretty easy to trip up.

Understanding the reason why an LLM is easy to trip up doesn’t really make it any less easy to trip up. The computer in Star Trek would have just given you the answer.