Bobr

I am in a superposition of being a tankie and not being a tankie at the same time.

Tankies consider me a lib because I dislike DPRK.

Libs consider me a tankie because I dislike “the west”.

Oh well

Thanks for telling me what I just said in my comment people already told me a million times, I guess? 🤷‍♂

Yeah yeah, “if we don’t kill you then Russia will”. Heard that one too many times from the good guys as well :)

Yet nobody was able to show me how people were wiped out in the liberated territories (Crimea, Melitopol, etc.), how millions of us living in Russia were wiped out, etc.

Again, you don’t get to make a surprised pikachu face when you are literally telling people whom you are trying to kill that they are Russian bots.

How can anyone in good faith support Zelensky, the bloodthirsty tyrant who turned my country into the biggest prison in the world where people are kidnapped off the streets, beaten, forced into vans and then sent to die in a meatgronder?

That’s a rhetorical question of course, I’ve heard the answer[s] so many times already, basically some version of “it’s a war so anything Zelensky does is absolutely normal/justifiable and it’s OK if you, your family and basically everyone you know dies, no big deal. No human rights apply to you, now please go and die fighting for my geopolitical interests”.

But you cannot make a surprised pikachu face after that and be shocked that people actually support the evil-evil Russia, which liberates people from the regime you support.

Removed by mod

No, why would they? Haven’t you heard that Russia is literally Mordor filled with orcs, while Ukraine (especially under Zelensky’s rule) is a bastion of democracy? I don’t think that western governments/media and especially Zelensky (who doesn’t benefit at all from this war and is the main victim here) would lie to anyone about that!

Now that we got sarcasm out of the way…

If you want to form an informed opinion about it you can start by looking at the map of 2010 elections, where there was basically two candidates, a pro-EU one and pro-Russian one. Take a look at the distribution and percentage of people voting for a particular candidate in particular regions. Then look into the coup that happened in 2014, which powers participated in it (you can listen to their leaked conversations as well), then remember the electoral map you just looked at, and maybe make some conclusions.

That’s “before the invasion” the part.

“After the invasion” part is of course less clear, but again if you want to start making an informed opinion you can start by looking, for example, at the level of freedom people located on Ukraine controlled territories have and that of people on annexed by Russia territories (or just “Russia proper” territories). Who is free to leave at any moment and go anywhere, and who is forbidden to leave the country because the government needs cannon fodder? Who is encouraged to volunteer to join the army with monetary incentives, and who is kidnapped from the street, beaten, held in basements for days and forcefully sent to the meat grinder? Again, you can try to make some conclusions from that, and maybe speculate whether it’s possible that people from one of those groups may want to join the other one.

As a finishing touch - I am Ukrainian, I was born there, and lived most of my life there. Thankfully, I left the country before the war started. If I visit Ukraine - I will most likely be dead in a matter of months (after being kidnapped and beaten by the brave TCC guys). If I visit Russia - I will at most face more scrutiny at the border due to the war. I’m not from an eastern region of Ukraine and I never wanted it to become a part of Russia. You can try to guess which options are preferrable for me currently.

Just checked my battery usage by app.

SimpleX has the first place with 35%, with the next app being the browser with mere 12% :/

The punch line? I’m not even using SimpleX, it’s just installed on my phone because there were a few chats I wanted to join.

Unless it’s auditted and open source then you should assume its spyware.

I do. I use Matrix and recommend it to all my friends.

“Telegram is spyware” was not the original thesis I replied to, it was about “operated by the enemy”.

Sure, what exactly would you like to have a proof for?

I know, right? I was also shocked when I discovered that it’s not just the evil-evil Russia who does the propaganda thing! :)

Is anything I’ve said a lie though? Or maybe misinformation? Or maybe I’m manipulating facts? Or maybe “Russian talking-points” is how you label inconvenient truth that you are not willing to accept? :)

Debunk what I’ve said, show everyone that I’m just a Russian propagandist (or even better - a bot) spreading lies and deceptions!
Ah yeah right, why do that if calling someone a “Russian larper” is a good enough argument for some folks… :)

Thanks, that was an interesting read :)

Of course it doesn’t prove anything (especially that Telegram sends any information about Ukrainians to Russian government!), but at least those allegations indeed have more credibility than the usual “Russia bad”. It also doesn’t say anything about Durov doing something because he had financial problems. And what it definitely doesn’t say is that “Telegram is operated by Russia”.

Yeah, I hear this quite often :)

Every Ukrainian who doesnt want to die for Zelensky is a Russian, yeah yeah yeah heard that one more times than I can count.

Cheers :)

What gives those rumors credibility other than “Russia bad”?

If you have links to some sources with some facts - I’d very much like to read them

Russia literally wants Ukraine wiped out and yet the idiots unable to change an app on their phone because “network effects and habit”

The thing with Zelensky’s propaganda is that externally (with people familiar with the situation only from CNN (or whever you get your information from…)) it works an order of magnitude better than internally… :)

So “idiots” use Telegram because not only they see no threat in it (why would they?), but also because it helps to avoid the very real threat of “lawful mobilization actions” by the government.

Imagine entire country using coms software operated by the enemy.

Do I get it right that you know that

• Pavel Durov (the creator of Telegram) has left Russia after refusing to give government information on Ukrainians during 2014 protests (from his previous project - VK, also used by both people in Russia and Ukraine)
• Russian government’s most extensive blocking campaign/attempt was targeted at Telegram
• Telegram’s headquarters are in UAE

and still somehow make a conclusion that “it is operated by the enemy” (assuming that by enemy you mean Russian government)? I’d like to learn more about this logic :)

but the government is worried that the app is being used as a method of disinformation

Yeah, disinformation…

People just share too many videos of brutal kidnappings and beating of people in broad daylight lawful mobilization actions by conscription officers there.

And what’s even worse, people warn each other about the places where such lawful mobilization actions are taking place today, so that others can avoid them.

Unthinkable, right?

Pointing out their hypocrisy will not help anybody.

I choose to, perhaps naively, think that some people might actually recognize how absurd this is, and hopefully change their opinion :)

The best you can do is sit down and watch this comedy from the sidelines.

Just “watching comedy from the sidelines” can result in one day waking up in a totalitarian hell :/
(Not that my shitposting will change much of course :/)

Yeah, so just as I said - good guys banning social medias is good because they are the good guys protecting the democracy against bad people and so on, and bad guys banning social medias is bad because they are the bad guys censoring the truth from oppressed people or something.

No hypocrisy here :)

Let me guess, you think Russia/China/etc. banning websites is bad (because obviously they are doing it due to being authoriatarian regimes and to not let people learn the truth), and EU (or generally any western country) banning websites is good (because obviously it would be done to protect democracy and people from consuming dangerous misinformation)?
Did I miss anything? :)