hendrik

I think that’s true. I’d somehow like to have different words available. Because I think it’s a big difference whether it’s Minecraft Hitler. Or the actual Nazis we have on the rise as of today. For example the richest man on earth “accidentally” doing the Nazi salute in front of a right-wing audience. And we know he also likes to share nazi propaganda on social media and supports authoritarianism. If we call all of them the same, we also normalize stuff… So yeah.

I roughly followed that back in the day and I think there isn’t much to these claims. He seems to sometimes have a bad taste and is a bit naive in some regards. But that’s not being a Nazi. And it’s been 7 or 8 years and he seems to have learned from that, or was there any more controversy? I don’t follow him, nor have I watched any videos for some time. And this video also doesn’t convince me to watch his content…

Edit: And I don’t want to apologize that behaviour. He definitely did these bad “jokes”, I just think he genuinely thought it was funny and he was some sort of clown. But that makes him an idiot, and not a nazi.

Two things to consider:

• It’s likely illegal to take other people’s content and re-publish it on your own terms
• Peertube admins have to pay for storage. So don’t dump random noise there. It has to be useful / worth it. Especially if you make someone else pay for the server space.

I don’t think the internet gave particularly good advice here. Sure, there are use-cases for both, and that’s why we have both approaches available. But you can’t say VMs are better than containers. They’re a different thing. They might even be worse in your case. But I mean in the end, all “simple thruths” are wrong.

I’m not sure what OP meant but I think none of the comments here are nailing it. If we say, we can’t do anything unless it’s 100% certain that all instances comply with the protocol, we might scrap the whole Fediverse idea altogether. Any post or comment or vote or deletion could be tempered with in one way or another. I mean we’re clearly making an effort here to do federation. I don’t really agree with the why and how of the whole discussion. My own point is, the software seems to have some bugs. Rarely, some comments and posts don’t federate to me correctly, and more often than that, deletions don’t federate correctly. Which seems to be one of OP’s problems, but also while dealing with spam or malicious activities.

On the other hand, everyone who thinks it’s super easy to just delete everything has never had a look at the consequences. Moderators and Admins sometimes need to deal with bad people, there are technical reasons involved. And bad people also misuse features. It’s complicated for several reasons, difficult to get it right and it’s always a balance between opposing legitimate interests.

But with that said, this doesn’t apply to bugs. Lemmy should at least iron out the software bugs to federate activities to other instances properly.

Hehe, I don’t know if they don’t want to understand it, or if it’s a lack of technical knowledge… But yes. In the digital realm, a copy and the original are identical in every way, no matter how you twist it. And you can’t even properly transfer any item it in the same sense as it applies to physical items. (Unless we’re talking about quantum computers or something like that…)

Sorry, this just isn’t correct. Yes, you can ask for almost anything and it’ll be alright and merely asking a question is completely legal.

The issue is, you then proceed to do a second step. And that is transferring the data. And that is a separate thing. You then initiate the actual transfer. Your computer actively does that. It keeps the transfer going and recieves the network packets. It literally copies them into RAM and then copies them again onto your harddrive. To make your local copy. The uploader merely reads it from their harddisk and hands it out, they do one copy operation less. Though they’re still the distributor.

I think any expert witness would testify in court, that your computer as the downloader does two copy operations, at least in the technical sense of the term. And that you’ve ultimately also initiated the transfer as the downloader due to how TCP/IP works.

The thumbdrive example is a bit construed. I think you might get away with that, though. Unless you plug it into your computer. Because then all the copying to RAM and harddrive etc starts again. But I think just pocketing it is posession (which doesn’t seem to be wrong), and not necessarily copying.

But like: how do other laws work where you live? Can you instruct someone to do something illegal and you’re fine? I can’t come up with anything normal, let’s say I hire someone to kidnap my child/wife to teach them a lesson. Or I hire a hitman to kill my arch enemy. Am I fine dong that? It’s a bit over the top. But where I live I can certainly get into trouble if I make people do something on my behalf. Which I’d argue doesn’t exactly happen here. It’s a bit more complicated… But your concept of law doesn’t seem to make much sense to me.

Fair enough. I guess we can skip the other options then, at least for your case. The replacement isn’t implemented in a very thoughtful way, I agree. For technical reasons, you can’t have it your way either. A platform with tree-style comments or replies can’t have a comment in-between deleted entirely, or the rest of the tree will collapse. So there needs to be some empty placeholder. Or you just can’t use platforms which allow users to reply to each other, but that’s more a you-problem. I agree though, if you delete it, it can’t have your username or content left behind. Thanks for raising this concern. I’m not sure if anyone ever put it on the agenda for Lemmy.

Well, did the uploader push it onto my computer, or was it me who clicked on something and initiated the transfer? I’d say it’s the latter. So the downloader initiated the copying process… I mean if I steal an orange in the supermarket, we also don’t say it fell into my hands and somehow they’re guilty…

And additionally you might find other local laws like this: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/156.35
and generally, this is related to wire fraud, computer fraud, unlawfully obtaining information from a protected computer… Which all seem to be crimes and something people get charged with if someone wants them convicted of a crime. See Aaron Swartz for example.

In Germany we definitely have this:

• https://www.juraforum.de/gesetze/urhg/53-vervielfaeltigungen-zum-privaten-und-sonstigen-eigenen-gebrauch

and we have Störerhaftung which can also get you in trouble even if you didn’t do it yourself.

In the USA it’d probably be something like https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106
which says the copyright holder has exclusive rights (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies […]
Which is kind of what you do when downloading something. There will be a copy on your harddisk… And (1) does NOT limit this to redistribution, like (3)… I’m not sure how it turns out in practice. I don’t follow American court rulings that closely.

Damn leechers. And doubly so. First they steal the books, and then they don’t even give back to the pirates. And it’s not like Anna’s Archive or Libgen weren’t struggling already. So Meta is just harming everyone involved.

Sure. Question is: How can we improve? Is this a symptom for another missing feature? Or do we want to not address it and just provide one nuclear option? Would you for example like a feature for ephermeral comments, which auto-destruct after a week or so? PieFed has something like that for posts. Or the ability to categorize comments so you can find them later on? Or an option to (regularly) wipe your history, so you don’t have to delete the whole account…

That’s why I ask for exact reasons, and not just a vague feeling about how the platform is bad… I mean it is for some edge-cases like this. And I don’t see how Lemmy would improve on this in the near future. Seems some of the groundworks still don’t work properly. But this doesn’t have to apply to other Fediverse software.

And sometimes I struggle to relate. I for example don’t post anything on social media that’s very private in nature. So I don’t really have the use-case where I post someting publicly on social media, but then I want it gone at the same time. I suppose we just post different things, because I can see how you wouldn’t have your daily state of mind available forever.

Exactly. And I sometimes find myself in the position where internet enshittification and content vanishing harms me more than it helps. So I’d like to balance this with the other side of the medal, where people might have legitimate interest to do so. But so far the argument has been “just because”. And for me, that argument doesn’t tip the scale to their direction. I still have tangible arguments not to over-delete. While the other side seems to be very theoretical.

Tl;dr: Yes, it’s complicated.

Hmmh. I think 1) just means it has to be implemented properly. But you’re right. That sounds exactly like something a developer would do. Unlink the information and at the same time add a timestamp that immediately links it again 😅

And I’m not sure about 3) I’d have to read the GDPR again. Afaik it just mandates the user is provided with the ability to do so. Not that it needs to be the default.

And 2) is kind of my question. I suppose a user who is about to delete their account, might not be super relaxed and ready to deal with the intricate details. I mean they could be pissed and want out asap. Or something happened and they need to get it over with, quickly. Either way, it’s probably not the right time to bother them with 500 questions and make them learn about the consequences. Though… They need to do the right thing. Once their account is gone, and it turns out they would have liked to delete more (or less), that’s not really possible any more (without manual admin intervention). So maybe it’s down to: delete everything in any case, and accept that it has a negative effect on the content on the platform.

It also has to be balanced with handling abuse etc since malicious actors use the same features to cover their tracks.

But I’m probably getting way ahead of where we are. OP said deletion doesn’t even propagate through the federated network correctly. So realistically, we probably don’t need to bother with the details several steps down the line.

Heheh. Sure. If I’m not at home, my sex-toys are up another stranger’s bum. It made no sense for us to own anything anymore. My brain implant keeps me indifferent and drugged. Consuming and obedient… I’m happy.

Good use-case. Would it suffice to “unlink” the information in that case, instead of deleting it? I think that’d solve both problems. The posts and comments would stay in place for everyone to keep using them, but it’d say “by [deleted user]”, so it’s forgotten that you (or someone) wrote it.

I’m not sure. And we somehow need to present that to the user without overwhelming them with several options, delete account without data, delete account and unlink content, delete account and content…

And now do egg price.

Hmmh, not sure if I’m experiencing a Déjà vu, or if this is just because I’ve talked to some people who were complaining about some aspect of the platform and saying they’re going to quit. Anyways, I wish that you’re somehow going to find what you’re looking for. Whether it’s on this platform or somewhere else.

Seems to me like you’re having an on-and-off relationship. And those often turn out to be… difficult?

Thanks, and I happen to already be aware of it. It doesn’t have any of that. And it’s more complicated to hook it into other things, since the good old postfix is the default case and well-trodden path. I think I’ll try Stalwart anyways. It’s a bit of a risk, though. Since it’s a small project with few developers and the future isn’t 100% certain. And I have to learn all the glue in between the mailserver stuff, since there aren’t any tutorials out there. But both the frontend, and the configuration and setup seem to make sense.

Out of curiosity: What’s a reason to delete all the content? I don’t want to imply you shouldn’t be able to do so… But I often find it very annoying when people delete large quantities of stuff. Because that also deletes the comments I made, which took me time to write. It deletes my bookmarks. And sometimes people wipe their history regularly, which removes technical questions along with the correct answers and other material that might prove useful to other people, if it weren’t deleted… And I had things that I’d have liked to return to, vanish into thin air multiple times now.

I’d like to understand the perspectives and two sides of that coin. And since you say you’d like to delete content, I thought I’d ask about your perspective and the why…