• Felis_Catus_Domesticus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    57 minutes

    Mandate that all boot loaders can be unlocked by consumers/device owners!

    That single change alone would open the floodgates of development.

    Manufacturer locked boot loaders was the single biggest mistake made in the phone world. Now just consider all the work it’ll take to reverse that simple misstep made years ago that nobody gave a single thought to.

  • deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    2 hours

    Only an Android alternative will fix this. No amount of proactive work from users will change Google’s mind on this.

    • Cactus_Head@programming.devEnglish
      2 hours

      Most of the world can’t afford to buy one specific android and hope not to brick it. Most people can’t afford a google pixel and if they can, aren’t going to risk it.

      And what happens when google cuts off third party tools like MicroG. I need WhatsApp for almost everything from talking to family and friends to Work. Most of the world does, and the same is true for Facebook.

      • alfredon996@feddit.itEnglish
        1 hour

        Most people can’t afford a google pixel and if they can, aren’t going to risk it.

        And they shouldn’t. By buying Pixels you are supporting Google, the same company that is destroying Android freedom.

        Today’s best alternatives are phones that come preloaded with custom ROMs (Brax3, Fairphone, Murena, Iodé, and so on), or if you’re feeling more adventurous, a Linux phone (I have heard good things about FuriLabs FLX1).

    • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      9 hours

      Not only would that solve this little problem, it would reduce Google’s power and remove one’s data from the claws of US authorities (were the Patriot and Cloud acts let them mass track everybody using a Google product).

      Just make sure you chose a non-US Linux phone.

    • Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11 hours

      or making a cydia-style open source repository style app store that’s accessible through custom firmware.

  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    9 hours

    Most online petitions are nothing more than a way to safely (for those targeted and for those amongst the authorities who support them even against the public interest) dissipate the common people’s righteous indignation, by making them feel like they “did something” whilst said something is just about the least impactful thing imaginable.

    (Some official ones, for example those mandating parliamentary sessions on the subject if they reach a certain threshold, might not be so, though its unclear as it really depends on the legislation around it allowing politicians to just ignore it at will)

    This bullshit will require a lot more than adding your name into a list on some corner of the web in some legal jurisdiction where they’re free to sell your private information.

  • percent@infosec.pubEnglish
    15 hours

    I genuinely appreciate the cause, but to sign this, I have to provide PII, agree to their terms of service and privacy policy, and get automatically opted-in to their mailing list that I’ll have to unsubscribe from later.

    So to petition against this shitty tech stuff, I have to go through this other shitty tech stuff. It sucks how normalized this all has become.

    • justme@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      12 hours

      here it makes at least some sense to verify that each person voted once. the mail list stuff is of course to much and should be optional from the beginning.

  • l3mming@lemmy.worldEnglish
    16 hours

    The number of times that signing an online petition has prevented the plans of an evil corporation is exactly zero.

    • Axolotl@feddit.itEnglish
      12 hours

      There are already some movements, like #Keep Android Open that ask to contact local regulators and law makers, this petition is useful to have a concrete number of people that agree and that can be used officially

    • coredev@programming.devEnglish
      16 hours

      I am not so sure. It creats activity, being passive is worse. We should encourage all type of protests, even petitions.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        9 hours

        It dissipates righteous indignation by making sure that people feel the satisfaction and the release of “doing something” (and thus not act any more forcefully) whilst said “something” is the least impactful thing imaginable.

        It ultimately makes those who would do more do less instead.

    • karlhungus@lemmy.caEnglish
      16 hours

      Companies have reversed unpopular decisions in the past (just saw a thing about Facebook reversing some AI thing). So there may be some possible chance of them reversing this decision. I’m not hopeful but the cost is cheap, and it has a better chance of success than doing nothing

      • DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        14 hours

        Hence the proliferation of spam… It cost nearly nothing to do and has a very limited chance of return… And yet my inbox has still got 10,000 messages in it which I do nothing about.

  • yucandu@lemmy.worldEnglish
    23 hours

    A 24hr waiting period to use a competitor’s product has to be one of the most blatant anti-competitive behaviour in history.

    • FundMECFS@piefed.zipEnglish
      2 hours

      I‘m curious I read the petition and didn‘t see mention of „24h waiting“ anywhere could you tell me what you‘re referring to?

    • altphoto@lemmy.todayEnglish
      3 hours

      Welcome to McDonald’s credit! You’ll have to wait 24hrs if you want to eat that Whopper you want to buy!

    • aesthelete@lemmy.worldEnglish
      22 hours

      If only the founding fathers had written the right to bear apps shall not be infringed in an amendment.

      Oh well can’t change the ancient text now, just have to be governed by it forever. 🤷 (It’s a shame the ancient powder-wigged wizards that wrote the constitution weren’t clairvoyant.)

      • Cactus_Head@programming.devEnglish
        5 hours

        I am not from the US but can’t you interpret the first amendment in a way that would work here?

        Code is just information and you could argue that a platform is infringing on private free speech.

        • MasterBlaster@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4 hours

          i am American, and yes we have a long history of interpretation that is expansive. the problem is we have narrow minded people running the institutions now who don’t even want the narrow interpretations to be in effect so they do everything possible to limit them.

          if you pay attention long enough you will see them use one argument to get their way, then later use the opposite to get their way on a different issue. there is no moral consistency because morality is just s tool to them.

      • DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        14 hours

        That’s it gents! Wax up those mustaches, load the cannon with grape, storm the White House! We’ll give those bastards a day of reckoning that won’t soon be forgot.

        Also kilts and face paint 🤣

      • Bacano@lemmy.worldEnglish
        21 hours

        If only there were some way to change the ancient text. Some sort of amend-sion. Surely our benevolent leaders would have figured something like that out by now. I guess we’ll just have to keep voting and hoping every four years

  • aesthelete@lemmy.worldEnglish
    22 hours

    please just make an android alternative

    I want a phone that isn’t a closed ecosystem race to the bottom shit phone

    • Err(()).unwrap()@lemmy.worldEnglish
      19 hours

      All of the alternatives eventually run into the same “Will my banking app work on it?” problem. The absence of a healthy app economy is the one thing that can’t be fixed by throwing software engineers at it, and it is what caused the death of Windows Phone.

      • vrighter@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        15 hours

        my banking app already doesn’t work on my phone, because it doesn’t like termux:x11 and an autoclicker i have installed for an idle game

      • DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        14 hours

        Right. It wasn’t the zune guy, limited adoption, Microserfs killing the platform after 7 years or a general lack of interest, a climate of distrust after 10 years of garbage operating systems with new logos and the same Windows NT internals…

      • Shumina@lemmus.orgEnglish
        17 hours

        God I fucking LOVED my windows phone. Nokia body, windows OS, and no one fucked with making viruses because eleventeen people bought one in total.

        • xelar@lemmy.mlEnglish
          12 hours

          Lumias before Microsoft’ acquisition were adorable phones.

        • DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          14 hours

          🤣 Man… that phone from The Saint with the slide out full sized keyboard though. Peek Nokia.

              • EastofEdson@lemmy.caEnglish
                2 hours

                So you can use the website in your browser but still have the have their app installed for 2fa? That’s peak bullshit there.

                Google reCaptcha is going to have a similar requirement for accesing half the bloody internet once that goes through. In summary, I think we are fucked.

          • Andres@social.ridetrans.it
            14 hours

            @PabloSexcrowbar @anon_8675309 When my bank _doesn’t_ allow check deposits via website, I will switch banks. Ain’t installing a stupid app for a _bank_ of all things, and why would I bank from a device that I could accidentally lose at the grocery store?

          • homik@slrpnk.netEnglish
            8 hours

            Well, that’s fine since it isn’t 1982 anymore. Right?

    • jabjoe@feddit.ukEnglish
      21 hours

      There are, but the market is rigged by monopolists. And things like banks increasingly require apps that won’t even run on customer Android ROMs easily.

      The regulators are needed here.

      • lemmysmash@piefed.socialEnglish
        16 hours

        The problem with regulators is that they a) gladly suck corporate dicks, b) gladly opt-in for the same authoritarian methods of population control, and c) gladly ignore common sense altogether.

        • karlhungus@lemmy.caEnglish
          16 hours

          “a” has a name: regulatory capture.

          Regulators have in the past fulfilled their role, they’ve just been hamstrung.

        • jabjoe@feddit.ukEnglish
          11 hours

          That is also because we let the companies get too big. We need to break them up. The market is completely dysfunctional. It is feudalism right now.

    • realitaetsverlust@piefed.zipEnglish
      20 hours

      I’m pretty sure that custom roms will remove that 24hr wait period from their binaries. Android is still open source and removing a check isn’t going to be very hard for them.

      The tech ecosystem is as open as you can. Use linux. Use SearxNG. Use graphene or other custom roms. There’s options out there, you just have to start adopting them instead of just complaining online about having no choice.

      • EastofEdson@lemmy.caEnglish
        2 hours

        Google reCaptcha enters the chat.

        This whole APK dicussion is important, but Google is taking steps to lock down the bloody internet if you aren’t on a verified iOS or Android device. This will be far reaching going way beyond the APK changes.

        related article

      • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        10 hours

        Not everybody has a choice. I’m currently on grapheneos, but it looks like I may be forced back to android due to national ID requirements.

        • realitaetsverlust@piefed.zipEnglish
          3 hours

          If your country forces you on a locked down OS for ID requirements, something is wrong entirely. You should absolutely make some noise against that and urge them to allow custom OS. That’s a political issue, not a technical.

            • realitaetsverlust@piefed.zipEnglish
              3 hours

              Shit country tbh. You might be able to get a cheap stock android device for your ID and your “actual” device keeps living the good life on a custom rom. Idk how feasible that is for your lifestyle tho.

        • AlteredEgo@lemmy.mlEnglish
          10 hours

          I guess one solution to that is to have a second used or ultra low cost phone just for your personal ID and banking stuff. But then it’s no longer really mobile lol.

        • realitaetsverlust@piefed.zipEnglish
          3 hours

          I might have misunderstood that all those years, but custom roms like graphene or lineage all use the AOSP source to build “their” stuff on top. Android itself is all the proprietary shit google adds and probably bunch of proprietary firmware drivers, which isn’t relevant in the slightest if you switch to a supported device.

          • garbage_world@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3 hours

            Not quite, but I would accept that.

            AOSP is an open source OS based on a Linux kernel. Importantly, it is not a linux distro. GrapheneOS and LineageOS are downstream, open source derivatives of AOSP. Android is the same, but is proprietary.

            Android isn’t just what is added on top of AOSP, just like Ubuntu isn’t just things added on top of Debian, but a complete OS.

            Hope that helps

            • realitaetsverlust@piefed.zipEnglish
              3 hours

              Yeah, that’s roughly what I thought, in which case switching to graphene (or any other custom rom) would completely “release” you from the proprietary grasp of google and their genius ideas. Because even if they add this 24hr lockdown in the AOSP-Project, graphene could rather easiely revert that change in their fork.

              • garbage_world@lemmy.worldEnglish
                3 hours

                Yes. Most of those AOSP forks still use elements of android (google play services) for compatibility reasons.

                • realitaetsverlust@piefed.zipEnglish
                  3 hours

                  Graphene doesn’t, they got their own sandboxed google play services compatibility layer. Other OS - no idea tbh.

  • curbstickle@anarchist.nexusEnglish
    1 day

    @[email protected] as a reminder the reason this is related to self-hosting should be obvious, whether in the title or the post text.

    For this one, I’ll note that this is key to self-hosting, and I think many know it. Many, myself included, use f-droid or similar 3rd party repos to manage the apps that we use with our self-hosted setup. With this change, many of the current apps we enjoy using will either need to register with Google, or essentially become unused. While there is a way to still do it, it is really messy, and requires an absolutely wild number of steps + 24hr “cooling off period”. Its ridiculous.

    Personally, I’m leaving the android ecosystem one way or the other. It may be using an android phone and hotspotting for another device running PMOS or similar, or getting a Moto with Graphene, whatever, but this change is impactful and horrendous.

    • SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zoneEnglish
      23 hours

      Not that I particularly trust Google, but they have promised to not molest the ADB pathway.

      "Are ADB installs impacted by the 24-hour waiting period for advanced flow? No, there are no changes to how ADB works. You will be able to install applications using ADB as usual. The waiting period does not apply to ADB installs. Last updated: March 23, 2026’

      https://developer.android.com/developer-verification/guides/faq

        • SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zoneEnglish
          23 hours

          LADB is a native android feature. Unless they plan to kill adb entirely, what’s to stop me from doing this -

          • Download apk
          • Enable Wireless debugging
          • Pair the on-phone ADB client
          • Run something equivalent to: pm install /sdcard/Download/app.apk
          • Installation occurs through the ADB shell route.

          Because if that works, “install from Fdroid” needs just a small tweak so that the Fdroid app submits the APK through ADB.

          • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
            English
            11 hours

            Enable Wireless debugging

            not everyone has wifi at home, and this doesn’t work without one. It’s also very complicated for people. it is basically a wall around a garden.

            also you either have to set adb over wifi to automatically turn on when connecting to that wifi, which is not that safe, or turn it on manually every time you want to install apps or updates. with that, the recent android feature to allow 3rd party stores to update their apps without a prompt goes out the window.

          • curbstickle@anarchist.nexusEnglish
            23 hours

            The nonsense steps to even get there. The absolute nonsensical mess of lies in their claims to even do this in the first place. Lets be clear - if they wanted to block malware, they would need to be doing so from the Play store in the first place. So, lets highlight a few simple things:

            • It was only about 6 months ago that it was documented by a cybersec company that hundreds of malicious apps were downloaded quite literally tens of millions of times.
            • The number of malicious apps on the Play store have gone up, not down.
            • Banking malware has more than doubled in the past few years
            • The majority of growth (more than doubling) in the YoY were spyware apps - used for identity theft, extortion, and surveillance, and all on the Play store.
            • There are even ones specifically targeting Android TV boxes, again mostly operating unchecked on the Play store.

            To even suggest installing apps (which, lets be honest, that is what they are calling “sideloading” - doing the thing you do on your PC all the time) from a different location is the issue is far from reality. So any “promise” from them is worth functionally nothing to me.

            As I said, I’m leaving Android either way. I shouldn’t have to go through such a massive number of hoops to install on my own device.

  • DataCrime@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    14 hours

    This feels like the last stop for this. I swear it got posted 3X a day to every other sub for weeks last year.

    Am I ignoring the actual post and just looking at the logo because I own a 7 year old iPhone —also yes.

  • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.worldEnglish
    24 hours

    All this effort going towards “saving” green fascism when we should be pouring these efforts into Linux

    • marxismtomorrow@lemmy.todayEnglish
      22 hours

      That’s great and all but the current linux phone offerings are… not suitable for general public use. The iPad generation will simply not be able to use them in their current state.

      • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6 hours

        Historically the most technically inclined are always the first to a “new” technology. I don’t see why this round should be any different a the ipad generation will come when it’s their time.

      • NotEasyBeingGreen@slrpnk.netEnglish
        21 hours

        We were so close to a phone usable by non-enthusiasts with the Nokia N1. The Nokia Linux phones were killed when Nokia hired a former VP at Microsoft to be their CEO. I’m still bitter.

        • DosDude@retrofed.comEnglish
          22 hours

          Jolla, ex nokia employees, just sent out their first batch of the Jolla phone. It uses sailfishOS, a Linux based operating system capable of running android apps.

          I’m in the wait list for my own.

            • DeathByDenim@lemmy.worldEnglish
              18 hours

              I’m in Canada. I got myself a Sony Xperia and bought a Sailfish licence for it so I could get the Waydroid integration and predictive text keyboard. Works pretty well. So if you are interested in the OS rather than the hardware, that could be a route to go.

              Technically, the licence is not for sale in Canada (or US), but meh, it did work at the time. Probably still does.

              Anyway, I quite enjoy Sailfish. Been using it for about 4 years now or thereabouts. There’s a fair number of native apps, especially with Chum and Storeman. With Waydroid, many Android apps work too, though definitely not all.

          • Andres@social.ridetrans.it
            21 hours

            @DosDude @NotEasyBeingGreen The fun thing about this whole saga is that there’s linux phone stack stuff that’s been completely neglected for the past ~15 years that we’re now having to bring back to functionality because of projects taking up pieces of maemo/meego.

    • Zorque@lemmy.worldEnglish
      20 hours

      There’s diminishing returns, and we have lives outside our phones. Well, most of us. We can put a limited amount of time and energy into this, but pushing Linux requires a great deal of effort and time.

      Not saying we shouldn’t also do that, but in the mean time fighting to keep the options we do have less shitty shouldn’t be completely abandoned.

      • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6 hours

        You’re right. The green fascists will probably change their minds and just be cool about this.

        • Zorque@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4 hours

          You’re right, we should just roll over instead of fighting for a better future.

          • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4 hours

            My original comment’s point was we should push as hard as we can into Linux and abandon green fascism all together

            • Zorque@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2 hours

              And my point was that putting all your eggs in one basket, especially if they’re not even laid yet, is foolhardy.

              • JimmyChezPants 🇨🇦@growers.social
                2 hours

                @Zorque I think the point that @lIlIlIlIlIlIl is making - remember, we all want the same thing here - is that every bit of effort put into trying to force Google to act in ways that they will never act again, in the end, is going down a memory hole at the end of its ripple effect on reality. And that’s true, and worth acknowledging.

                However, effort going into technical development of Linux-based portable devices, is only going to come from a select few people, and I would propose to say that the people who are working on new OSH designs for pocket computers that will eventually take the place of these corporate surveillance monoliths, these people are probably not the ones putting time into what we sometimes call “digital activism” (ie. posting on socials about justice). They post, you know, Git PRs.

                So you know, you’re both right, you just need to remember that different people are working on those two goals, and keeping Android as, umm, “sideloadable” as possible while the real nerds continue to save us is a worthy thing to do, if it even delays things by a year.

    • Matt The Horwood@lemmy.horwood.cloudEnglish
      21 hours

      You do know that android is Linux under the hood right?

      So we have a Linux phone now, it’s just got a crappy front end on it

    • Ooops@feddit.orgEnglish
      24 hours

      Petitions are useless

      Protests are useless

      Governments and corporations conspire to implement surveilance knowing what comes next

      <-- we are here

      Actual resistence

    • DandomRude@lemmy.worldEnglish
      23 hours

      That is simply wrong. Public pressure can certainly be effective. In any case, it’s definitely better than doing nothing at all.

      • placebo@lemmy.zipEnglish
        23 hours

        Public pressure can be effective, but this isn’t public pressure. This is the “click a button if you agree” type of action. Online petitions are extremely ineffective unless they’re part of a broader, stronger campaign. This petition isn’t part of anything in particular.

        From what I see, some student started it and there are no goals, and no planned actions. According to change.org, this petition mentioned in a medium.com blog and some tech website most of us have never heard of. That’s not much.

        It’s just a place to vent your frustration.

        it’s definitely better than doing nothing at all

        It makes one feel better because it gives people a false sense of accomplishment.

        Look, vote if you want, I just think this is off-topic and isn’t directly relevant to self-hosting. Hence the comment.

        • AmbitiousProcess (they/them)@piefed.socialEnglish
          20 hours

          The petition is only one part of the puzzle.

          Keep Android Open also says to contact your regulators and fill out Google’s developer verification survey, both of which either directly affect Google by influencing internal processes, or put regulatory pressure on them to back off.

          The Change.org petition is moreso just a way to count overall total supporters, and add one more lever of pressure that can be leveled against them. (e.g. instead of “we’ve had a lot of people contact regulators” it’s “218,000 people are actively taking the time to tell you they don’t like this”, can be cited by lawmakers, advocacy groups, etc)

          That said though, I do agree that a change.org petition on its own is… generally ineffective most of the time.

    • curbstickle@anarchist.nexusEnglish
      1 day

      Eh, I wouldn’t say useless.

      I’d say they only account for user sentiment at best. Which can have an impact, but I’d say incredibly unlikely that there will be an impact on this one.

      Not using android as much as possible will have a much higher impact though.

  • Hueristic_Autistic@lemmy.worldEnglish
    11 hours

    MAKE AN OPENSOURCE STORE THROUGH CUSTOM FIRMWARE DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydia

    “In August 2009, Wired reported that Freeman claimed about 4 million, or 10 percent of the 40 million iPhone and iPod Touch owners to date, have installed Cydia.[17]”