Study from TU Graz Reveals Front Brake Lights Could Drastically Diminish
bioengineer.org
The concept of a front brake light has been floating around the automotive industry for some time now. However, no vehicle manufacturer has yet embraced the idea and turned it into a reality on the
  • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
    11 months

    By signaling to oncoming traffic and vehicles approaching from the side, a front brake light provides an essential visual cue that a car is slowing down or preparing to stop. When the light is extinguished, it indicates that a stationary vehicle might initiate movement. According to Tomasch, this visual feedback can significantly truncate the reaction time for other road users, leading to shorter stopping distances and consequently diminishing the likelihood of accidents.

    Sounds reasonable. Personally I just want front turn signals to be visible from the opposite side again.

      • rollerbang@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11 months

        Here’s an idea. How about we zap the drivers after they make a turn if they didn’t use a turn signal beforehand? 😀

        • njordomir@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11 months

          Can we do this in the same bill as the popup spikes that take out your tires if you stop across the crosswalk? The guided RPGs replacing red light cams can wait a little longer.

        • xthexder@l.sw0.comEnglish
          11 months

          Cars with lane-keep assist with vibrate the steering wheel and beep at you. It’s at least something but I think most people turn it off if it gets annoying

          • Rexios@lemmy.zipEnglish
            11 months

            Anyone complaining about lane keep not letting them change lanes or make turns is telling on themselves

            • xthexder@l.sw0.comEnglish
              11 months

              There are a couple situations where it’s annoying and I turn it off. My truck has the “steer back into lane” style assist, but it’s tried to push me off the road before while I was towing a trailer on some narrow 1-lane roads. Some of the corners it’s just not possible to get around without touching the center line.

              The vast majority of the time it stays on though and is quite helpful.

              • Almacca@aussie.zoneEnglish
                11 months

                It means they’re not indicating for their lane changes or turns.

        • ThePantser@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          11 months

          Couldn’t we just use the point system from 5th element? The car noticed you did something illegal and dedicated from your point pool.

    • Hubi@feddit.orgEnglish
      11 months

      Personally I just want front turn signals to be visible from the opposite side again

      Not sure if I read that correctly, but I don’t think this has ever been the case?

      • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
        11 months

        I mean when a car is coming at me from a cross street, I want to be able to tell if they’re turning or just an asshole not using their signal. On some cars, the turn signal is mounted so far to the side that if they’re approaching from my right and turning right onto the same street as me, I can’t see that turn signal. Sometimes combined with the roundness of the nose exacerbating the problem.

      • SaltSong@startrek.websiteEnglish
        11 months

        I think what he wants is the front turn signal to wrap around the front, so I can see the left signal from the right quarter.

        I’m not aware that this is not the case, but I don’t know that I would have noticed if it was not.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          11 months

          Isn’t that the case for pretty much everything? Newer cars alternate blinking their headlights and the signal indicator, and even cars w/ the turn signal on the side will have some light bleed through since it’s all one assembly. In the majority of cars, I can see their turn signals when they’re perpendicular to me. The larger issue is that most people in my area don’t bother to use their signals in the first place.

          • SaltSong@startrek.websiteEnglish
            11 months

            Yea, that’s part of why I don’t know for sure if they make cars the way the guy at the top of this thread is describing.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              11 months

              Same. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a car that can show me the signal on the opposite side of the car, but I have seen a lot of cars where I can see the indicator while stopped at an intersection and the car is perpendicular to me, since I have a little bit of angle to see the edge w/ the indicator.

              99% of the time, it’s not an issue, and the other 1% of the time it doesn’t really matter if I can see the indicator (I.e. they’re already halfway turning, so they’re angled away from me).

              • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
                11 months

                Yes that’s all I want, to be able to see the indicator again. A lot of newer cars have moved them too far to the side of the vehicle.

                I encounter this pretty often because a Boston area streets are terrible and the drivers are worse, so a visible indicator helps all drivers make traffic flow more smoothly.

        • Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          11 months

          I’m pretty sure most cars have a turn signal near the headlights, and one on the mirror or on the side for that use case, no?

    • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11 months

      Theres a saying in computer stuff that applies nicely here. PEBKAC, problem exists between keyboard and computer…turn signals have to be turned on, no amount of engineering can fix bad driving.

      • Gerblat@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11 months

        Heads up, it’s actually keyboard and chair, not keyboard and computer

        • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11 months

          Dang it, sometimes I just type stuff and dont think about what I typed (the irony of what I was writing out)

      • SystemNeo@toast.oooEnglish
        11 months

        I’ve always heard it as “PICNIC”

        Problem In Chair, Not In Computer

      • Pika@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        11 months

        I’ve actually always found it weird with all the automation vehicles have, that blinkers aren’t linked to the wheel. it already automatically disengages when turning, it shouldn’t be too hard to have it auto engage as well when turning

        • reattach@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11 months

          The thing is, you want the turn signal to turn on before the start of the turn, so other drivers, pedestrians, cyclists can react.

          • brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            11 months

            I cannot stand how in some vehicles if I turn on the signal to indicate I am planning to change lanes, it will beep at me that there is a car there. I’m indicating I plan on it. Not that I’m turning the wheel right this second. I know there is a car to my side, I’m going to change lanes behind it, but am indicating mostly to the car behind them.

          • Pika@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            11 months

            agreed, I don’t think the blinker switch should be removed, but a late indicator is better than no indicator.

            • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
              11 months

              How would that work? On the highway, a slight nudge on a straight means you’ll cross a lane, meaning turn signals on.

              A kilometer later, the exact same slight nudge could mean it’s just a light turn in the road, meaning signals off.

              Now you could mandate cameras in all vehicles, which analyze your driving and turn on the turn signals when it thinks you’re making a turn. Now who’s responsible in a false positive if someone else dodges you and crashes because you suddenly turned on the signals without turning? Except it wasn’t you, but your car. Oh and also you made entry level cars 10k more expensive, making them way more inaccessible if you aren’t rich.

              • Pika@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                11 months

                it wouldn’t indicate for slight turns only standard turns. Normal turns on the road may engage it but It’s meant as a “hey this person is actively turning” or as a “this cars wheel is turned that way” so you know the direction it will go if it started moving

                but honestly even if it did, it isn’t hard to see “oh that car is on a curve obviously it’s not turning”

    • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
      11 months

      How would you do that so it isn’t ugly as hell and isn’t prone to misunderstanding?

      • acosmichippo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11 months

        How would you do that so it isn’t ugly as hell

        same way we do with lights now, design them attractively. It is not always successful and that’s on the manufacturers.

        and isn’t prone to misunderstanding?

        what about it is confusing? green = not coming at you so it’s okay to turn left (or whatever).

            • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
              11 months

              Red is always on top (at least in Europe) so even color blind people know what the signal is.

              • Trashboat@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                11 months

                Same here in the US, though I’ll say as someone actually colorblind, it’s not the easiest to decipher the red/yellow when at speed until you’re somewhat close. Normally not an issue since anything resembling red=start slowing down, but there are situations where a standard light may start acting as a single flashing red or yellow, and that can be tough to figure out at speed. Flashing reds are supposed to have stops signs here as far as I know, but there’s been at least one intersection that hasn’t had them, which certainly gives me some anxiety about taking that as a rule. The system works alright enough, but it’s definitely frustrating that we settled on red/green for things when that’s the most common color blindness. I have some strong opinions on bathroom indicators, particularly in airport bathrooms where the lighting is often sub par too

            • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
              11 months

              It’s not that easy I think (and you had by far the best idea in this thread now).

              Can’t make them red or orange, they’d be just turn signals.

              Can’t make them green, that wouldn’t work for color blind people, and since you actually need the color for understanding what signal you get (unlike traffic lights) you actually have to make it work

              And arguably you can’t really make them white, because you can’t see a white blinking light inside a headlight and couldn’t differentiate it from the back light. Same with light blue.

              Which leaves darker shades of blue, which are really hard to see in daylight.

        • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
          11 months

          How would that work? If you look from the side you suddenly don’t see anything again, or an arrow point forwards or backwards?

          If you look from the front, current turn signals work for that already.

          • Oneshot@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
            11 months

            sliding lights: it depends on the bulb but i imagine it would easy to see move

            arrows: i dont know why you think they would point fowards or backwards they would just towards the side youre on or not

            • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
              11 months

              If you’re looking at the side of the car, you don’t see them the same way as from the front. Which this whole discussion is about.

              If you can see both turn signals from your point of view, current design works well enough.

                • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
                  11 months

                  I know how flow lights work. But they still don’t help you see better that a car is turning away from you, which is what this discussion is about.

                  Imagine a crossroad where a car is coming from your right side. You have no way of knowing whether they turn right or go straight, regardless of the way the lights work, because you won’t see them.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        11 months

        I’ve seen newer cars turn the headlight off while the turn indicator is on, so you get a sort of double-blink effect.

        I don’t see any reason why we can’t just have the whole headlight blink yellow as well with the turn indicator. LEDs are everywhere and can handle changing colors really easily, so it’s not hard to require that for all new cars.

        • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
          11 months

          Absolutely, but that doesn’t solve the problem that’s talked about here (seeing the turn signal from the other side of the vehicle). It might be clearer what the turn signal is, but if you look at the right side of a vehicle, you won’t be able to see the left headlight, even when it’s massive.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            11 months

            When am I ever looking at the side and needing to see the other side’s turn signal? The best I can think of is (using right side driving) a car turning right into my lane of travel as I’m going straight, but I’ll be a bit offset to the left and should be able to see the right headlight. If I can’t, that means the car is angled to the right, making it obvious that they’re turning.

            • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
              11 months

              Because this is what the discussion is about?

              Personally I just want front turn signals to be visible from the opposite side again.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                11 months

                And I’m saying I can see them most of the time, and when I can’t, I don’t need to because their intention is obvious.

        • Lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          11 months

          I’ve seen newer cars turn the headlight off while the turn indicator is on, so you get a sort of double-blink effect

          Those are typically DRLs. Chrysler did this for a while in the 2000s-2010s (maybe still, idk), where the high beam - in DRL mode - turns off while the turn signal is doing it’s thing. Other manufacturers do this with dedicated DRLs, sometimes integrating the DRLs and turn signals into one multicolored unit (Kia Telluride, for example).

          No manufacturer shuts off a headlight for a turn signal when the headlights are intentionally turned on (whether by light sensors at night, or by the driver).

        • sour@feddit.orgEnglish
          11 months

          That doesn’t answer the question. The question is how you would design it so you can look at the left side of a car, know that it’s turning right and isn’t prone to misunderstandings.

    • moakley@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11 months

      So it sounds like you’re checking to see when the light turns off, to know that the car is going.

      Sounds like what we actually need is a green accelerator light on the front of the car.

    • Almacca@aussie.zoneEnglish
      11 months

      Some of the new Kias have the rear indicators in the bumper. Why are they hiding them?

      • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
        11 months

        Because the designers and marketers were given priority over the safety engineers.

  • JaN0h4ck@feddit.orgEnglish
    11 months

    Not selling tanks as cars could also help. Especially with fatality rates

    • GoodOleAmerika@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11 months

      People don’t even need car tbh. Motorbikes everywhere please. Zip zip, less traffic, everyone pays attention to road or falls and dies.

      • tamman2000@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11 months

        I live in Maine. Riding a motorcycle in the winter is not only highly unpleasant, it’s borderline suicidal.

        I’m all for 2 wheeled transport where it works, but anywhere that gets snow for months out of each year it’s a non starter as a primary transportation mode

          • credo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11 months

            Motorcycle rider here. Yes, families with children will rent a truck anytime they want to purchase groceries, and when it’s raining. It’s not practical.

            This is a stupid thread.

            • fnrir@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
              11 months

              The maybe use public transport? If you REALLY need to use buy car - buy one.

              Also: families were not mentioned before in this thread. Is driving around with your partner and 5 kids and a couch a daily occasion?

              • credo@lemmy.worldEnglish
                11 months

                Lol, come here and use our public transport options before you speak. This entire thread is led by those laying wide-reaching proclamations while being unable to consider any situation other than their own.

                • NotSteve_@lemmy.caEnglish
                  11 months

                  So the answer would be to advocate for better public transport

            • newaccountwhodis@lemmy.mlEnglish
              11 months

              Are you by chance from the US? Because other countries have sensible zoning laws and public transit, making cars for families not a necessity but a luxury. Where I live, nobody needs a car. Shopping is done by cargo bike or hand cart, family trips are taken by train or metro.

              If you live in a stupid country tho people might depend on cars.

            • secret300@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
              11 months

              Yeah no shit for families but for people that have the choice. Fuckin dumbass

              • credo@lemmy.worldEnglish
                11 months

                Let me go ahead and quote the broad spectrum claim that came before mine:

                People don’t even need car tbh. Motorbikes everywhere please. Zip zip, less traffic, everyone pays attention to road or falls and dies.

        • OrgunDonor@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11 months

          Like this?

          I think personally I would go with this though

          (/s cause it is probably needed)

        • GoodOleAmerika@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11 months

          And the exact reason that you don’t need to buy a truck to transport goods once in a blue moon

      • boughtmysoul@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11 months

        This might be the dumbest comment I have ever read on the Internet. That’s like 30 years of comments.

      • Bluewing@discuss.onlineEnglish
        11 months

        You would think killing off the stupid would improve the breed. But apparently the real world shows it does not. Besides, I ain’t riding a motorbike at -40 Celsius or Fahrenheit or in 30cm/12" of fresh snow or in a thunderstorm.

  • cotlovan@lemm.eeEnglish
    11 months

    Maybe redo the driving test like… At least every 20 years? There are people on the roads who got their licenses when their town didn’t even had traffic lights. People who never saw a roundabout in their first 20 years of driving.

    Its nice that we restrict young people by making them take more and more driving lessons and paying more for tiered licences, like we do in Europe for motorcycles and trucks.

    But maybe also take a look at the 70+ year old grandpa who had two strokes and one heart attack, has two pairs of of glasses but his license says that he’s perfectly fit.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.ukEnglish
      11 months

      Sometimes you see those videos from a dash cam of a truck that hits a bridge, obviously the truck driver was been being inattentive but often so was the recording cars driver. All I can ever think is, “why were you so close behind, it was blindingly obvious that was about to happen”, yet to them apparently it wasn’t, and now they’ve got bits of truck roof in their windscreen.

      There was an astounding number of people who really cannot drive, and yet they think they’re driving safely. They just haven’t gotten a crash yet.

      • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
        11 months

        Because it wasn’t blindingly obvious? I don’t know how tall the truck in front of me is, and since I don’t drive tall vehicles I know even less about the heights of bridges. Usually commercial drivers are the better ones.

        • Red_October@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11 months

          Well the thing that made it blindingly obvious was that it was a 30 second video of a tall truck driving full tilt toward a low bridge, so obviously something was about to happen!

      • helvetpuli@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        11 months

        If we limited drivers permits to the 8% or so of drivers who are actually competent we’d solve a lot of problems in several domains.

        I self-selected as ineligible to drive years ago, and I’ve never regretted it. Of course I had to move away from my home country and learn a new language, but those are the shakes.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11 months

        Reading all such things I’m starting to think “what if I can drive?” I’ve always thought I can’t, but since everyone around who thinks they can drive like suicide bombers, maybe I should find those driving lessons.

      • MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish
        11 months

        Define safe? If everyone drives safely enough that you are more likely to die of suicide than an automobile accident, is that safe enough?

        • Echo Dot@feddit.ukEnglish
          11 months

          That is a weird question.

          How do you calculate odds of dying by suicide anyway, wouldn’t they be personal?

          • MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish
            11 months

            The U.S. death rate is about 750 / 100,000 overall, with about 14.1 of those 750 declared suicide (you can never really know, but the suspected actual suicide rate is a bit higher, to preserve insurance benefits…)

            The current US death rate by automobile accident is around 13.4 per 100,000 - so, by those statistics, people are already slightly more likely to take their own lives by choice than they are to die in an auto accident.

            Of course if you choose to walk, you’re not entirely safe, the US pedestrian death rate is around 2 per 100,000, and that’s with most people driving everywhere most of the time.

            Another fun way to look at the end is lifetime odds:

            Death by suicide: 1/87 Death by automobile accident: 1/93 (which seems to indicate in itself that deaths by auto accident are expected to decline, or perhaps have recently increased slightly?) Death by firearm (US): 1/91 Suicide by firearm (US): 1/156

            Next time you’re driving on a 2 lane highway at speed, oncoming cars approaching at a relative velocity of 100mph and more (50 in your direction 50 in theirs…) count oncoming cars. When you get to 87, odds are that one of those drivers will ultimately die by suicide… there’s a little solace in the fact that most of them won’t be doing it by swerving into oncoming traffic, and the bigger relief is that most of those that do, won’t be doing it at that particular moment just before you pass.

            As for guns - that’s a whole different mess, but interesting that the numbers are so close.

        • helvetpuli@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          11 months

          Fatal motor vehicle accidents are just over 865000 times more common than commercial air travel accidents, but until dash cams we never got to see them, so people think it can’t happen to them, when it’s slightly worse than even odds.

    • dejected_warp_core@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11 months

      IMO, the big problem is just a matter of standards and practicality. The bar for a DL is “can operate a vehicle” and not “can safely drive a vehicle in public for extended periods of time.” I agree with periodic re-licensing though; everything else called a “license” seems to need that for a host of reasons.

    • Valmond@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11 months

      At least give them some new info like now it’s legal to go the wrong way on a bike if the speed limit is 30 km/h where I live. Guess not a lot of people know about that and a gazillion other things.

    • crazyhotpasta@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11 months

      In Finland we have this thing called “huoli-ilmoitus” Super useful when you meet elders driving 70-80km/h in 100km/h area.

      • Routhinator@startrek.websiteEnglish
        11 months

        I have to contend with 70-80 year olds doing 30km in an 80 while swerving across the midline because they saw a bird across the street.

        • idefix@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          11 months

          Here in France they drive at 70km/h in a 90km/h road. They also drive at 70 in a 70 road. And 70 in a 50 road. And 70 in a 30 road…

        • crazyhotpasta@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11 months

          Yeah, like if someone crashes their car due their own stupidity, I’m not stopping to help. Darwin Awards and all that.

      • sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        11 months

        The couple of times they tried out roundabouts in my area, they didn’t last long because people were too stupid to figure out how to use them. So instead they just bitched until they were taken out.

    • MrAlternateTape@lemm.eeEnglish
      11 months

      I always say there are drivers out there who only survive by the grace of other drivers.

      • cotlovan@lemm.eeEnglish
        11 months

        So risking everyone else’s life around you is worth it?

      • Corn@lemmy.mlEnglish
        11 months

        Why not move to a place where low mobility doesn’t cut you off from the rest of society?

        There’s plenty of retirement communities where you can get around with a golf cart. In the 3 biggest cities here in SK, old folk can ride the subways for free, and sometimes you even see them drive mobility scooters on.

        Other places I’ve been have level boarding for buses, but I’ve never seen someone drive a mobility scooter onto one. Certainly it wouldn’t fly in SK.

          • Corn@lemmy.mlEnglish
            11 months

            No, being in poverty is really bad here, but I just picked SK out as a close example, old folk becoming recluses who only interact with Fox News and people serving them is pretty specific to American and/or car-centric culture. Hell even car-centric parts of america have retirement communities where they all drive scooters or golf cars.

            • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.mlEnglish
              11 months

              Well in any case I’m here and not there and when that happens there won’t be money to go to some magical car free place. We have winter here and the groceries are 20 km away. There is no bus, no taxi and not even uber. Not that I would have the 60 bucks a ride would cost. Of course I would also lose my job which 60km away.

              So deer slug to the brain will be the prescription.