Star Wars universe does have lasers of all scales and power levels.
Yet literally no one uses them well on a personal scale.
The Jedi (and Sith for that matter) imbue it with a power of magical stone, and then…use it as a saber.
To balance this stupidity, stormtroopers, clones and droids all use slow, non-continuous energy blasters. With actual lasers, they could insta-kill any Jedi, but they cannot, because otherwise the movie wouldn’t exist.
Pictured are space-bombers. They drop gravity bombs… in space. Please stop talking about scientific accuracy in Star Wars.
Remember how in TESB, Han and Leia land in an asteroid crater/cave to hide and go out in the vacuum with nothing but an emergency airplane O2 mask thinking that’s OK? And gravity is earth normal gravity?
I’m pretty sure “a galaxy far far away” means the laws of physics are a bit different.
Also, let people enjoy things.
During all my life, from all the movie, EU, and games, they have specialized ships to do bombardment missions,. Y wings, and A wings for surgicals.
The fucking scene threw me off so hard… it was so fucking stupid. Just like the rest of the movie eventually.
I remember seeing this shit in theaters and losing my mind over how stupid it was. It’s in the middle of an incredibly bad movie anyway which doesn’t help, but I just can’t imagine how many people had to be involved with this creative choice and how ar least some of them must have brought up how stupid dropping bombs like that is in a space fight and yet they still went with it. Dumbest shit ever.
but there’s gravity in space. surely that means there’s dropping stuff in space too!
Suspension of disbelief, or belief in suspension tech?
Start with land speeders… what holds them up? If you’re in a universe where it’s simple to make anti-gravity devices, why not use them to “fly” your big space ships too?
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, they knew things we still do not, and apparently they did not know many things that we do.
It’s fantasy, not sci-fi though
Space opera, specifically.
Space Western
The most known version of which is FireFly (or Red Dwarf?)
We don’t need to split hairs - ‘sci-fi fantasy’ or ‘science fantasy’ is a real genre and common enough term.
You can’t stress that enough. I love sci-fi, but I never really fancied Star Wars.
Now, as a dad, I rewatch the movies and replay scenes with my son, and the similarity with fantasy action movies strikes me. For example, the beautiful display of alien species and habitats.
Laser swords and biological powers beyond our current grasp of the science behind them define it as science fiction.
I get it’s the quirky pickme trend to argue over this and I agree about the fantasy elements but don’t be the ‘actually’ guy in the room.
Not really, in LoTr, they have a magical sword that shines around orcs, another one that can stop a ghost sword, and there are being with biological powers beyond the grasp of our understanding.
I think you are confusing setting with genre. By your logic the star wars and star trek porn parodies are also sci-fi and not porn.
Sci-fi is only sci-fi if science plays an integral role in the story, eg. Expanse, Stargate (shows), Star trek. But these are all arguably in space, so I get your confusion, that’s the setting, shows like Black Mirror and For all mankind are also sci-fi and those are present day things.
Well actually For all mankind plays out in an alternate past where the space race continues (though I guess this is also technically in space).
Black mirror explores humanity through the lense of abusing technological/scientific inventions.
So those are science based fictions, sci-fi.
Star Wars is space fantasy, arguably if we live in an alternate universe and the original trilogy is released in the late 2000s and 2010s they could be dubbed as YA. Random teenager protagonist finds out they are indeed special and helps to overthrow an opressive regime, like Divergent, Hunger games, Maze runner
They aren’t lasers, though. That’s just a colloquial term. Like how we call large language models AI.
Yeah, to add on to this:
At least back in the 90s/00s, the canon explanation from various books and such is roughly…
The ‘lasers’ are actually coherent ‘bolts’ of highly energetic plasma, ie, gas excited/heated to the point that electrons are breaking out of their atomic orbitals, extremely thermally hot, capable of doing immense burn damage, melting a hole through you or most other armors/materials/alloys.
The explanation is that ‘laser’ weapons, and ‘turbolaser’ canons… by some arcane process, as the plasma travels through the barrel of the weapon, it is somehow encased in, or enveloped by, or transformed into having a very strong, self contained psuedo-magnetic forcefield, that keeps the plasma from just immediately expanding in all directions upon exiting the barrel, and keeps it vaguely spatially constrained and coherent.
It is supposed to be a sort of analogy to how rifling in a conventional firearm makes the bullet much more accurate… and it also kind of intuitively thus makes sense that a big, fuck off huge barrel, can throw a larger projectile downrange, and faster.
Its also sort of how a rail gun or coil gun works in real life, but not really.
In universe, plasma bolts do not travel at light speed, they also do not travel forever: they dissapate and sort of evaporate or fizzle out after travelling a certain distance, and this generally occurs more quickly from smaller weapons than it does from larger weapons.
Basically, their ‘coherence field’ is only stable for a short time, sort of like a gel capsule for a drug dissolves in your stomach after a certain amount of time.
This is again another rough analogy to real world ballistics with solid bullets or shells… irl, longer barrels are able to increase the kinetic emergy imparted to a projectile, thus increasing its muzzle velocity, thus increasing its effective range.
Ammo is also a thing that exists in a lot of older Star Wars canon. A blaster will eventually run out of the… plasma fuel, which is often contained in essentially a magazine… and technically, all blasters also need either the rough equivalent of a starter engine, or an independent battery/‘ignition’ system to actually do the process of transforming the ‘ammo’ into a plasma bolt, and accelerate it out of the barrel and cohere it into a bolt.
I also recall Tibanna gas, from Cloud City, being specifically mentioned as a primary component of blaster ammunition in at least one of the Rogue Squadron games, though it apparently gets more complicated with different colored plasma bolts essentially being made of different blends of different kinds of input materials having different properties and only working properly in certain kinds of blasters, again, a sort of rough analogy to different calibers of bullets and barrels and chambers.
…
Light sabers follow a similar overall principle of ‘plasma bolt contained by some kind of coherence field’… but they use totally different internals to generate both the plasma and coherence field, and can seemingly just… do this nearly infinitely, never needing to ‘reload’, never running out of energy.
Those internals?
Magic (kyber) crystals and an extremely esoteric, basically electronic circuit design.
This is why so much emphasis is placed on a Jedi constructing their own lightsaber as a fundamental rite of passage:
Every lightsaber is bespoke, unique, you have to be essentially supernaturally intelligent, ie, sufficiently in tune with the Force, to be able to comprehend how to actually construct one… and indeed, there are at least a few instances or mentions of where someone attempts this, fucks it up, and their malformed lightsaber basically blows up in their face.
You can also see the ‘coherence’ principle at play as a light saber… well the ‘blade’ grows out of the hilt, as the coherence field expands… but it never disconnects, it never expels the plasma bolt away from the hilt.
…
So, if everything, lightsaber ‘blades’ and plasma ‘bolts’ are both encapsulated by some sort of pseudo magnetic coherence field, it makes some amount ofintuitive sense that if you get them close to each other, they will repel, deflect, ricochet.
… But, this cannot be just the electromagnetic force as we understand it in our world, because… well, that shit doesn’t actually make any sense by our understanding of physics.
We have no idea how to create a self sustaining magnetic field that can be projected away from the source of what created the field and just… keeps sustaining itself on its own…
And EM is just + or -, either attactive or repulsive, so we would expect to see say a + bolt and a + lightsaber be capable of deflection… but a + bolt and a - saber, or even a + saber and a - saber… well those should actually be attractive, so you’d end up with a bolt that curves toward a light saber and then combines with it, or even two sabers being drawn toward each other and then merging.
…
In conclusion: Star Wars is science fantasy in the sense that it seems to operate under a… not completely alien, but significantly distinct set of basic laws of physics… you’d probably have to be a Jedi or Sith to truly understand how they actually work =P
Maybe I’m just old, but I can’t stand how magic the " kyber" crystals are in the rewritten sequel canon. In older legends canon, there was no “the crystal chooses the Jedi blah blah blah” which really makes it seem incredibly religious. You could use nearly any focusing crystal in a lightsaber, and Jedi would often choose a crystal that is sentimental or meaningful to them. There was little to no magic, and lightsabers were cheap and simple to construct. It was more that no one but a force-user could bring a laser-sword to a laser-gun fight and not die immediately.
I know I’m just not up with the times but I really loved old Star wars legends and how much emphasis it put on how these people who could use the force were normal people with exceptional abilities trying to interpret something much stranger and bigger than them (the force), and I feel like “kyber” crystals are a symptom of the very binary, new light vs. dark sequel canon which I find insanely reductive.
So uh yeah, I know I’m just old but it really bothers me.
P.S. Also isn’t the word “Kyber” just them bastardizing “Kaiburr” crystals (which were supposed to be rare lightsaber crystals)? I was pretty sure this was always the case.
I generally agree, with some nitpicks.
The old canon several times mentions that wielding a lightsaber is actually extremely difficult and unintuitive…
…because the ‘blade’ is literally weightless, that alone would throw off a lot of wielders of more conventional swords…
… but also because the saber, potentially as a byproduct of the ‘coherence field,’… produces strong, unituitive gryoscopic forces when moved or rotated at various angles and speeds.
…
The old explanation I remember is roughly that force sensitives essentially just intuitively know how to counteract this, to varying degrees of proficiency, but a non force sensitive, a non force user… they’d pick it up and awkwardly flail about with it as it seemingly gains and loses weight, is being pushed and pulled in crazy directions that make no sense compared to just, a physical sword or staff.
Sort of like trying to use a very, very poorly balanced real world melee weapon, but the weapon’s poor balance also actively changes, like its center of gravity just seemingly randomly alters as you move it.
Basically, a non force user fights the weapon, whereas a skilled force user understands it, and in a more physically tangible sense, literally allows the weapon to guide their combat movements and style, they know when to go ‘with’ it and when to go ‘against’ it, to achieve the actual desired motion.
This is kind of sort of depicted in the Mandalorian, with the Darksaber seemingly becoming exhaustively heavy, massive, and Mando has to… learn how to use it, how to work with it.
And also: yes, Han uses a lightsaber in the OT, but most of the early expanded universe did just explain that by saying he is actually force sensitive, that his absurd luck and piloting skill in various situations does mean he is actually a untrained force user, he just also is a stubborn ass who thinks the Force is bullshit, at least initially, lol.
…
But anyway, yes, they used to make lightsabers out of a wider variety of crystals, not just ‘kyber’… and yes, i also do remember many different variants of how ‘kyber’ was actually spelled.
For the life of me I thought its proper spelling was ‘khyber’ until i bothered to look it up in an actual wiki in the last couple of months.
That could be me misremembering, or maybe that was what I originally read decades ago now, or maybe what i am rembering got ‘telephoned’ through a bunch of people first, on some forum.
…Man now I kinda want to set up SWGEmu, hahahah!
Thanks for the clarification. I remember the gyroscopic weight stuff somewhat, but always sorta dismissed it since it felt like it was selectively used by authors and many of my favorites made little to no mention of it.
I haven’t had much desire to watch any of the new stuff since Force Awakens so I’m not up to snuff on the new stuff. Keep on enjoying it though! Makes me want to go back and read some of the best of legends.
Light sabers follow a similar overall principle of ‘plasma bolt contained by some kind of coherence field’… but they use totally different internals to generate both the plasma and coherence field, and can seemingly just… do this nearly infinitely, never needing to ‘reload’, never running out of energy.
In the comics taking place tens of thousands of years before the movies the Jedi have to carry large energy cells with them. They are attached with long cables to the hilts.
Yep!
The sort of proto sabers seem to be prior to them figuring kyber crystal magic, iirc, and needing to carry a more crude power/plasma source with them.
Sort of like a radioman in WW2 had to carry around a whole backpack sized radio, whereas nowadays we have like, a cell/smart phone, or just a proper encrypted handheld radio with way, way superior battery/power system in a more compact package.
Speaking of “like charge” sabers, there is a fantastic scene in SpaceBalls where this happens… :)
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine!
Its yogurt!
I want to see the rebels and empire go at it like this:
Iirc, that’s because none of the items mentioned in this post actually are lasers in the star wars universe. They’re actually supercharged bolts of plasma.
Laser weapons are considered primitive tech. Like who wants a space gun that just fires into infinity? You might blow up something incredibly far away by mistske.
star trek, and some other scifi genre captures it better, SW is more for children, it also magic-tech in it, so not really a true scifi.
SW is for children is not a great take. It’s just not sci-fi, and shouldn’t be judged as such. It’s a space fantasy, and it leans into the camp and the suspension of disbelief. They use wings and aerodynamics in space. Destroyed ships “sink.” The good guys never get hit and the bad guys die in one shot. Now, the new movies were absolutely disappointing, but Star Wars was never sci-fi, at least not in the ways this discussion is defining the genre.
I have always wished for a serious grown up version of Star Wars. Like not being afraid to sever limbs like they used to, or worrying about your scoundrels being too scoundrel-y. Also really taking an inventory of everything and seriously thinking about how it would interact.
Like to your point - no need to toss out the more magical force elements but maybe just tone it down a bit and ground them in reality a little better? Because it’s absolutely ridiculous how they’ve become these invincible laser blocking demigods. They should be afraid to deploy, just like anyone, if there’s going to be shooting. It’s just lazy writing most of the time and it would be wonderful to see what a skilled hand could actually do with it all.
I mean… they do take pause when a Mandalorian is shooting. They may block lasers but putting a lightsaber in front of a slug 6 inches from your face just turns you into Swiss cheese.
Also, their flamethrowers. A lot of mandalorian weapons were utilized solely to counter force users.
All they had to do for the Sequel Trilogy was adapt the Thrawn series.
…
Absolutely you do not have to be 100% faithful, absolutelty you can change some bits and bobs around, overemphasize a character’s trait, underemphasize another, spend more or less run time developing certain people, relationships, etc.
Adjust and rewrite parts of it to make more sense with the old cast of actors being older than their characters were in the Thrawn series… and/or use all that fancy de-aging / re-voicing / face transplanting tech they have used all over the place with many of the same actual actors on other projects.
Its got new and old characters.
Its got Mara Jade, a new main female character, who is actually compelling and complex and fleshed out.
It respects the old characters, acknowledges their flaws and highlights their strengths. You actually see them face new struggles and have new failures in the actual temporal continuum of the plot… not as shoehorned momentary flashback/retcons to explain why someone is a completely different character now.
Its got more mature and serious themes and character arcs.
Its got an actually compelling main villain.
Its got a secret shadow fleet of ships… but with an actually competent explanation for them.
It got big ass space battles, and personal upfront altercations, its got strategizing and politics and intrigue.
It even ends on a victorious… but not a ‘final’ victorious note, leaving the gate open for you to really try and do your own thing from then after.
Its even already been functionally story boarded by being adapted into a comic book series.
…
But nope, we instead got a bunch of disrepectful hacks who were convinced they could outdo everything prior, cast it all aside initially, and then started trying to copy parts of it after they realized how badly they’d fucked up.
Fucking hacks.
Its got Noghri!!
I should go back and read that again, I remember loving it so much. Also remember when Disney announced that the extended universe would be discarded to make room for new cannon and how much my heart sank hearing it.
=D
Also, because I am in nitpick mode:
Canon is a body of work accepted as legitimate, official, standard, etc.
Cannon is what you fire a cannonball with.
=P
Anyway, I’m off to go enjoy a dessert in a desert.
Agreed. Star Wars was never much my cup of tea - a bit too campy. That changed with Andor and Rogue One. Those are up there with my favorite movies/tv of all time.
Rogue One was really close to what I want the franchise to be. Having a universe with the force users instead of about the force users is so much more interesting.
And why the hell do the stormtroopers wear all that armor if one shot kills them?
Because it’s cheap and looks scary. The Empire controls through fear and perceived power, not actual technological superiority. Stormtroopers primary job is to suppress dissent in civilian populations, they generally aren’t fighting an opposing army.
