For sure for sure. I hope that my agreement with this sentiment was clear in my post. But there’s nothing about that sentiment that precludes someone from also reasonably wishing that they could bring their partner to orgasm without non-organic, non-self implements.
I’m saying, people shouldn’t be averse to using the vibrator - but just because they shouldn’t be averse to it doesn’t mean that it’s bad, dumb, or unreasonable to also wish to not always use the vibrator to orgasm or to have your partner orgasm.
The fact that its impractical doesn’t make it a shameful desire that should be eradicated. Some people wish their partner would fill them up with like, 4 cups of semen. That’s unrealistic (impossible). If they say “I don’t want to fuck you because you never produce 4 cups of semen like how I’d prefer”, then that is stupid and bad behavior, just like not making your partner orgasm with a vibrator just because you wish they didn’t need it is stupid and bad. But the wishing in itself should not be condemned.
I think the assumption that just because the wish exists, anger also exists is part of the problem that leads to condemnation of the wish. “And if you feel that not being able to make your partner cum the way you want to is a problem? Grow the fuck up.” - absolutely true, but just because someone wants their partner to cum in a different way than they actually do, doesn’t mean they see it as a problem. It may just be a desire or fantasy. Additionally, if that desire is central to their own sexual satisfaction, it doesn’t seem too unreasonable to say that that’s not wrong of them but rather an irreconcilable sexual difference. If someone really likes fingerbanging girls, but their girl hates it, that’s not a situation where either of them is in the wrong or needs to change what they’re attracted to - it’s just an incompatibility.
But the wishing in itself should not be condemned.
No. It very much should be.
A good mindset is “How can I pleasure my partner more”. A bad mindset, and what you are describing, is “Why won’t my partner orgasm the way I want to”.
The former is… a partnership. It is knowing what does and doesn’t work and communicating and adjusting.
The latter is getting angry that someone… is a someone. You know what you want to do and they don’t want to do it so that makes you angry. And that is really shitty.
Don’t get me wrong. Everyone has intrusive thoughts. The key is to realize “huh. That is really shitty. Let’s work towards not having those thoughts and never fucking tell anyone about them”.
You are still conflating “I would like it if I could make my partner orgasm with my bare hands” and “why won’t my partner orgasm the way I want to” as beliefs that must always go together. But it is totally possible to simultaneously believe and act on all the following:
How can I pleasure my partner more?
I love making my partner cum with the vibrator
I don’t expect my partner to cum the way I want them to
I would like it if I could make my partner orgasm in more ways than they currently do (i.e with my bare hands rather than a vibrator)
Isn’t it? At least, I see no reason for mutual exclusivity of these
And absolutely none of that is getting frustrated that your partner uses a vibrator instead of your fingers (or in addition to them).
If you are having actual conversations and the answer is always “I need to use my hitachi” then… maybe you two aren’t a good couple. From my experience? If someone actually knows what works for them and is confident in explaining that, they are also very open to trying new things. It just might not be what you want. That isn’t to say it is possible they ONLY want to do what they want to do but… that is very much not the sentiment being expressed in the meme from some lady’s stand-up.
You said the wishing in itself should be condemned - the wishing, in this case, referring to the 4th item on my list. It seemed like your reasoning was that the wishing is a bad mindset, so I was trying to illustrate how the wishing is not the same as having a bad mindset. If you agree I’ve done that, then mustn’t it be the case that the wishing itself should not be condemned?
I agree none of that is getting frustrated. That was exactly my point, that the wishing itself is not necessarily always coinciding with frustration, therefore the wishing itself is not what needs condemnation, the frustration is.
Hey I just want to say good on you for being so patient in this thread, the other person was clearly either arguing in bad faith or willfully misinterpretting what you were saying and you stayed steady. Good on ya mate.
A good mindset is “How can I pleasure my partner more”. A bad mindset, and what you are describing, is “Why won’t my partner orgasm the way I want to”.
If you want to actually read and understand there is a big difference between “I want them to cum the way I want them to cum” and “what can I do to better interface with my partner”, cool.
If you just want to keep trying to rephrase things until people pat you on the head for expressing the kind of mindset said stand-up was ridiculing? I mean… you do you. Possibly with a vibrator.
I’m not sure why you’re getting angry about this. If you’re correct, then my disagreement comes from a misunderstanding of what you’re saying. I’m not trying to be an asshole, in fact I hope I’ve come off respectfully to you. I know it’s upsetting that I seem to hold a belief that you believe is harmful, but I am at least trying to be respectful and come to a consensus. I like to talk to people with different opinions, not so that I can prove my correctness over them (I already intrinsically believe my own correctness by virtue of believing it), but so that I can change my opinion if I am wrong. I really don’t want to be upsetting or antagonistic to you. I want to learn, understand, and grow. I am not trying to rephrase things and receive headpats, but it’s up to you to decide if you want to believe I’m commenting in good faith or not.
With that out of the way, I do not believe I am expressing the mindset the standup is ridiculing. I believe the comedian is ridiculing someone who gets mad or threatened over their partner orgasming with a vibrator. I also dislike and condemn this behavior. I am only trying to provide a shade of subtlety to the ongoing social discussion on this issue by saying that the sexual desire in itself to bring one’s partner to orgasm without a vibrator is not a shameful or condemnable belief to hold. I had thought you and I were in total agreement, in fact, until you said that the desire itself should be condemned. Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by “the wishing itself”. But if not, then there’s a much more interesting discussion to have that could touch on a lot of cool subtleties about the issue, and we might both enjoy thinking about it.
Once again I’m sorry for having been frustrating. At the very least let me reaffirm as plainly as possible: someone being angry, bitter, jealous, or hurt by their partner not orgasming in the way they want, is exhibiting a harmful sexual mentality that should be changed. I hope our agreement on that front allows you to mark me off your “one of those assholes who is mad about the vibrator” list. ┐(´ー｀)┌
![[Jenny Gorelick] Co-Stars](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/82526c18-e403-4b8c-86fd-80996e8e7229.webp){kind=link}
For sure for sure. I hope that my agreement with this sentiment was clear in my post. But there’s nothing about that sentiment that precludes someone from also reasonably wishing that they could bring their partner to orgasm without non-organic, non-self implements.
I’m saying, people shouldn’t be averse to using the vibrator - but just because they shouldn’t be averse to it doesn’t mean that it’s bad, dumb, or unreasonable to also wish to not always use the vibrator to orgasm or to have your partner orgasm.
The fact that its impractical doesn’t make it a shameful desire that should be eradicated. Some people wish their partner would fill them up with like, 4 cups of semen. That’s unrealistic (impossible). If they say “I don’t want to fuck you because you never produce 4 cups of semen like how I’d prefer”, then that is stupid and bad behavior, just like not making your partner orgasm with a vibrator just because you wish they didn’t need it is stupid and bad. But the wishing in itself should not be condemned.
I think the assumption that just because the wish exists, anger also exists is part of the problem that leads to condemnation of the wish. “And if you feel that not being able to make your partner cum the way you want to is a problem? Grow the fuck up.” - absolutely true, but just because someone wants their partner to cum in a different way than they actually do, doesn’t mean they see it as a problem. It may just be a desire or fantasy. Additionally, if that desire is central to their own sexual satisfaction, it doesn’t seem too unreasonable to say that that’s not wrong of them but rather an irreconcilable sexual difference. If someone really likes fingerbanging girls, but their girl hates it, that’s not a situation where either of them is in the wrong or needs to change what they’re attracted to - it’s just an incompatibility.
No. It very much should be.
A good mindset is “How can I pleasure my partner more”. A bad mindset, and what you are describing, is “Why won’t my partner orgasm the way I want to”.
The former is… a partnership. It is knowing what does and doesn’t work and communicating and adjusting.
The latter is getting angry that someone… is a someone. You know what you want to do and they don’t want to do it so that makes you angry. And that is really shitty.
Don’t get me wrong. Everyone has intrusive thoughts. The key is to realize “huh. That is really shitty. Let’s work towards not having those thoughts and never fucking tell anyone about them”.
You are still conflating “I would like it if I could make my partner orgasm with my bare hands” and “why won’t my partner orgasm the way I want to” as beliefs that must always go together. But it is totally possible to simultaneously believe and act on all the following:
Isn’t it? At least, I see no reason for mutual exclusivity of these
And absolutely none of that is getting frustrated that your partner uses a vibrator instead of your fingers (or in addition to them).
If you are having actual conversations and the answer is always “I need to use my hitachi” then… maybe you two aren’t a good couple. From my experience? If someone actually knows what works for them and is confident in explaining that, they are also very open to trying new things. It just might not be what you want. That isn’t to say it is possible they ONLY want to do what they want to do but… that is very much not the sentiment being expressed in the meme from some lady’s stand-up.
You said the wishing in itself should be condemned - the wishing, in this case, referring to the 4th item on my list. It seemed like your reasoning was that the wishing is a bad mindset, so I was trying to illustrate how the wishing is not the same as having a bad mindset. If you agree I’ve done that, then mustn’t it be the case that the wishing itself should not be condemned?
I agree none of that is getting frustrated. That was exactly my point, that the wishing itself is not necessarily always coinciding with frustration, therefore the wishing itself is not what needs condemnation, the frustration is.
Hey I just want to say good on you for being so patient in this thread, the other person was clearly either arguing in bad faith or willfully misinterpretting what you were saying and you stayed steady. Good on ya mate.
If you want to actually read and understand there is a big difference between “I want them to cum the way I want them to cum” and “what can I do to better interface with my partner”, cool.
If you just want to keep trying to rephrase things until people pat you on the head for expressing the kind of mindset said stand-up was ridiculing? I mean… you do you. Possibly with a vibrator.
I’m not sure why you’re getting angry about this. If you’re correct, then my disagreement comes from a misunderstanding of what you’re saying. I’m not trying to be an asshole, in fact I hope I’ve come off respectfully to you. I know it’s upsetting that I seem to hold a belief that you believe is harmful, but I am at least trying to be respectful and come to a consensus. I like to talk to people with different opinions, not so that I can prove my correctness over them (I already intrinsically believe my own correctness by virtue of believing it), but so that I can change my opinion if I am wrong. I really don’t want to be upsetting or antagonistic to you. I want to learn, understand, and grow. I am not trying to rephrase things and receive headpats, but it’s up to you to decide if you want to believe I’m commenting in good faith or not.
With that out of the way, I do not believe I am expressing the mindset the standup is ridiculing. I believe the comedian is ridiculing someone who gets mad or threatened over their partner orgasming with a vibrator. I also dislike and condemn this behavior. I am only trying to provide a shade of subtlety to the ongoing social discussion on this issue by saying that the sexual desire in itself to bring one’s partner to orgasm without a vibrator is not a shameful or condemnable belief to hold. I had thought you and I were in total agreement, in fact, until you said that the desire itself should be condemned. Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by “the wishing itself”. But if not, then there’s a much more interesting discussion to have that could touch on a lot of cool subtleties about the issue, and we might both enjoy thinking about it.
Once again I’m sorry for having been frustrating. At the very least let me reaffirm as plainly as possible: someone being angry, bitter, jealous, or hurt by their partner not orgasming in the way they want, is exhibiting a harmful sexual mentality that should be changed. I hope our agreement on that front allows you to mark me off your “one of those assholes who is mad about the vibrator” list. ┐(´ー｀)┌