She took a perfectly fine point (toys can be used in sex and enrich the play)…and then formulated in a way that would indeed be off-putting to plenty of guys.
Toys should not become LeBron James of your sex, “earning more points” and leaving partner on the sideline. They should be useful assistants at reaching the peak pleasure.
As long as the point is “my partner can drive me even hornier with this” - it is super healthy and great. But when the toy itself becomes the focus, it’s not great. She could masturbate much to the same success.
The real comedy is in the comments we found along the way.
She gets hers and he gets his. Wheres the problem?
Maybe ask her if you can do anything to replace the vibrator and when she says you can vibrate her clit with your dick at 50 Hz, you tell her to just use the vibrator.Do whatever gets the job done. So many unnecessary hangups.
If she needed me to kill a chicken for her to get off, I’d ring that poor little bastard’s neck (the chicken’s, just to be clear.)
My love life involves a lot of choking the chicken too.
Emasculating ? Sounds like projection from her.
Its funny cause before i wouldnt have had a problem with it but they way she put it is kinda interesting lol.
Yeah she went with a healthy point and then drove it weird
I showed it to my gf she laughed, no insecurities when you know though heh. Cause LeBron doesn’t need to perform in the bedroom he does his work on the court, others have to do it in other less spacious rooms without millions watching thank fucking God. No viewers opinions when you’re there. Like a damn a parole hearing each time, they want to critic each bit. But have fun and make sure it ain’t too bad ;)
I never considered this would bother anyone. The vibrator gets used probably over half the time my partner and I have sex. Even when she cums from oral and we move to PIV then when I’m getting ready I’ll hand her the vibrator when I’m getting close because her climaxing again makes it hit a lot harder for me. Usually I’m inside of her actively while she uses it but on rare occasions when I go clean up she will stay back and finish for another time.
Jesus Christ that was descriptive. But yeah same here.
Well putting it like that is kinda belittling. I hear it as “well, sorry, you ain’t no LeBron James.” Is that the joke?
Not the sentiment though. If the woman wants some fun with a vibrator, go to town! Tell me to jump, and I’ll ask how high. Get your partner to have fun, however they want; it is not that complicated.
Would she say the same if they went to dinner and he pulled out ChatGPT and talked at it instead of to her? ‘Yay, I contributed to his conversation with a robot!’
As in many things, the end is not the point so much as the process.
That’s a point as well, but doing it the way you want doesn’t really satisfy her, so… you need to find a middle ground
It’s much more pleasant for her to do this with you, even if it’s not without a tool. That’s the important part
Vibrators are fine but when I whip out the premium™️ silicone vagina / asshole combo with a high speed self lubricating vortex cervix and the 36GG BIG TIDDY™️ attachment with Alexa integration I’m ruining he mood 🙄
And they kick you out of the Walmart!
vortex cervix
🤌🤌🤌
with Alexa integration
“I’m about to cum… Alexa play Despacito”
It’s because you aren’t using the cum collection tray attachment, it’s a game changer trust me
This thread is insane 😂
Emasculated goes a bit far but I kinda get it. It doesnt bother me if a sexual encounter starts with a toy, but “let me grab my vibrator so I can finish” is a night that ends with me feeling like I’m not good enough and probably going to bed feeling bad about myself. It’s something thats turned a few dates into one night stands for me when I told them how it made me feel and they were dismissive of my feelings
they were dismissive of my feelings
At least that’s a way to filter out bad people from your life
If they can’t get off from PIV and want a vibration to get over the edge, that shouldn’t affect your feelings about adequacy. Unless you can vibrate your dick at 500rpm, it’s not you.
You can sort of emulate a vibrator with the bridge of your nose and humming really loud, just saying
What the fuck is this technique haha
Instructions unclear, phrenum is spasming at about 8hz
It’s way more about anatomy than inadequacy. Many women can’t orgasm from PIV sex.
Personally, I am always delighted when someone I’ve just had sex with wants to orgasm in my presence. Never once hurt my feelings.
I am trying really hard to not sex shame anyone in this thread, but fuck me, mutual masterbation is almost more intimate than intercourse these days.
Meh if we’ve been drinking and it’s a first encounter, I am pretty sympathetic to the idea that we might not be in the right context to go through the seventeen step incantation to have everyone cum acoustically. It’s like onboarding a new employee - you have them make a token MR first and even that’s a push for literally day one. Maybe if it’s the third or fourth date and they are still just “ok clock is ticking I’m going to break out the big guns,” I might take exception, but first sex is always a bit of an ice breaker. Being like “ok stop, I need you to hit it from behind while pinching my nipple and reciting Chaucer for 25 minutes” is… fucking hot, but not necessarily first date material.
This is a tough one without further context. Were you making diligent efforts to reciprocate pleasure and they gave even though you felt you were making inroads? Did you make it clear that you wanted to get them off without the vibrator and they were open to that but it wasn’t working?
I think the way you felt is fair. I think attentive partners want to reciprocate pleasure and ideally do it with just their presence if the situation allows. I wonder how they would have responded if you said you wanted to try without it or if they felt there would be deeper meaning (rather than pure hedonism) to not using the vibrator.
Please tell me you were joking. If she brought out the toy you weren’t good enough. She might be a bit difficult to get off, but taking it personally? Unless she kicked you to the curb, go back in and try some more!
I’ve dated a couple of girls who can’t get off without a vibrator.
It’s hard to get mad at that. They’ve got their thing and it works. If your dick or tongue can’t shake at 30 wiggles a second, why complain? So long as we both get off by the end of it, everyone has a good time.
What’s the problem?
Equally, I’ve hooked up with some guys who struggle to get off during sex itself (which may be because the grip one uses while masturbating may be firmer than what one experiences during sex).
Having slept with both women and men, I feel like the pressure to reach orgasm seems like it’s bad for everyone. One dude I knew felt super insecure about not getting off, which stemmed from a previous partner taking it personally. It’s certainly the case that for some men, it can feel uncomfortable to have sex and not reach orgasm. However, I think that everyone would have a better time if people decoupled satisfaction from orgasm.
If I wanted to be certain that I’d get off, then the use of a vibrator helps a lot. That’s not necessarily my goal though; some of the best sex I’ve ever had didn’t result in me reaching orgasm, and I find it frustrating when people don’t understand that this is possible (I find this problem more common with men). Of course, that’s just personal to me — some people may consider reaching orgasm to be an essential part of “good sex”, but that’s why good communication is the best skill one can develop for better sex.
I’m one of those guys that struggles to orgasm. Even masturbating I will sometimes last a really long time. It’s more a mood thing than a sensation thing for me. I have to have my mind in the right state to orgasm. The good thing about it is I can have sex for as long as my partner wants often.
It’s odd, because usually men are the ones who leave their partners wanting. For me my partners pretty much always get more than they bargained for, but I’m frequently left without orgasming. It’s fine though. It’s still plenty enjoyable without it.
The stories you’ve lived are the ones that seem more meaningful. For a guy, climax is a given, and sometimes the whole point just for maintenance purposes. The wholesome joy of a thing is made impure by ulterior motives. It took me a while to see it from the other side.
If your dick or tongue can’t shake at 30 wiggles a second, why complain?
I would imagine for the same reason that women complain about men who cant cum without their pornhub deathgrip…
While I agree that feeling EMASCULATED by a vibrator is ridiculous, as men are not meant to have vibrating functionality, I think just as many women would feel just as bummed out by it if men did a similar thing. Imagine if a man only got like half of the way there fucking you, then pulled out and was like “oh quick get that super tight fleshlight out so I can cum”. Is it really so hard to understand why that might feel bad? Like sure, this fleshlight thing may be tighter than any biological vagina ever could be, but does that really make it not bother you? And even if it doesn’t bother you, wouldn’t it be nice if that wasn’t always necessary?
Because although penises aren’t meant to vibrate, and vaginas aren’t meant to squeeze like a tight fist, penises ARE “supposed” to please vaginas and vice versa, and if the literal climax of pleasure is not attainable by those means, why are we acting like that’s a silly thing to wish was different?
Don’t all people, regardless of their own sex or gender, or the gender of their partner, enjoy the idea of bringing their partner to orgasm using their own body and not a device? I have made my girlfriend orgasm manually, orally, penetratively, and with vibrators. They’re all fun ways to do it! But if we could only do it with a vibrator, I’d certainly be wishing we could get there other ways too. Is that really so silly? Each method has its own charms. So it seems very insensitive to put down these feelings, and it’s also gross to do it with a sports metaphor.
The reality is that it is generally harder for people with a vagina to achieve orgasm than for those with a penis. There are very much evolutionary reasons for that and… let’s not talk about that because it is dark as fuck.
In a perfect world? Two (or more) partners will always climax at the same time and everything will be wonderful. But that just isn’t reasonable. Maybe its been a while and one partner finishes faster. Maybe its stressful at work and you thought it would work but it just isn’t. And maybe you just kind of want the borderline sensory overload that sex toys tend to be capable of.
The reality is that partners should work towards making sure everyone orgasms as much as they want to. If that involves external stimulation with a vibrator while you have vaginal sex? Go for it. If that involves finishing someone off with a handy? Go for it. And so forth.
And if you feel that not being able to make your partner cum the way you want to is a problem? Grow the fuck up. Everyone is different and everyone responds to some stimuli better than others and that can change from week to week. If your partner really likes a vibrator? Awesome, work with that. Integrate it into the fun. Rather than get angry that they don’t want you to fingerbang them instead.
For sure for sure. I hope that my agreement with this sentiment was clear in my post. But there’s nothing about that sentiment that precludes someone from also reasonably wishing that they could bring their partner to orgasm without non-organic, non-self implements.
I’m saying, people shouldn’t be averse to using the vibrator - but just because they shouldn’t be averse to it doesn’t mean that it’s bad, dumb, or unreasonable to also wish to not always use the vibrator to orgasm or to have your partner orgasm.
The fact that its impractical doesn’t make it a shameful desire that should be eradicated. Some people wish their partner would fill them up with like, 4 cups of semen. That’s unrealistic (impossible). If they say “I don’t want to fuck you because you never produce 4 cups of semen like how I’d prefer”, then that is stupid and bad behavior, just like not making your partner orgasm with a vibrator just because you wish they didn’t need it is stupid and bad. But the wishing in itself should not be condemned.
I think the assumption that just because the wish exists, anger also exists is part of the problem that leads to condemnation of the wish. “And if you feel that not being able to make your partner cum the way you want to is a problem? Grow the fuck up.” - absolutely true, but just because someone wants their partner to cum in a different way than they actually do, doesn’t mean they see it as a problem. It may just be a desire or fantasy. Additionally, if that desire is central to their own sexual satisfaction, it doesn’t seem too unreasonable to say that that’s not wrong of them but rather an irreconcilable sexual difference. If someone really likes fingerbanging girls, but their girl hates it, that’s not a situation where either of them is in the wrong or needs to change what they’re attracted to - it’s just an incompatibility.
But the wishing in itself should not be condemned.
No. It very much should be.
A good mindset is “How can I pleasure my partner more”. A bad mindset, and what you are describing, is “Why won’t my partner orgasm the way I want to”.
The former is… a partnership. It is knowing what does and doesn’t work and communicating and adjusting.
The latter is getting angry that someone… is a someone. You know what you want to do and they don’t want to do it so that makes you angry. And that is really shitty.
Don’t get me wrong. Everyone has intrusive thoughts. The key is to realize “huh. That is really shitty. Let’s work towards not having those thoughts and never fucking tell anyone about them”.
You are still conflating “I would like it if I could make my partner orgasm with my bare hands” and “why won’t my partner orgasm the way I want to” as beliefs that must always go together. But it is totally possible to simultaneously believe and act on all the following:
- How can I pleasure my partner more?
- I love making my partner cum with the vibrator
- I don’t expect my partner to cum the way I want them to
- I would like it if I could make my partner orgasm in more ways than they currently do (i.e with my bare hands rather than a vibrator)
Isn’t it? At least, I see no reason for mutual exclusivity of these
And absolutely none of that is getting frustrated that your partner uses a vibrator instead of your fingers (or in addition to them).
If you are having actual conversations and the answer is always “I need to use my hitachi” then… maybe you two aren’t a good couple. From my experience? If someone actually knows what works for them and is confident in explaining that, they are also very open to trying new things. It just might not be what you want. That isn’t to say it is possible they ONLY want to do what they want to do but… that is very much not the sentiment being expressed in the meme from some lady’s stand-up.
You said the wishing in itself should be condemned - the wishing, in this case, referring to the 4th item on my list. It seemed like your reasoning was that the wishing is a bad mindset, so I was trying to illustrate how the wishing is not the same as having a bad mindset. If you agree I’ve done that, then mustn’t it be the case that the wishing itself should not be condemned?
I agree none of that is getting frustrated. That was exactly my point, that the wishing itself is not necessarily always coinciding with frustration, therefore the wishing itself is not what needs condemnation, the frustration is.
Hey I just want to say good on you for being so patient in this thread, the other person was clearly either arguing in bad faith or willfully misinterpretting what you were saying and you stayed steady. Good on ya mate.
A good mindset is “How can I pleasure my partner more”. A bad mindset, and what you are describing, is “Why won’t my partner orgasm the way I want to”.
If you want to actually read and understand there is a big difference between “I want them to cum the way I want them to cum” and “what can I do to better interface with my partner”, cool.
If you just want to keep trying to rephrase things until people pat you on the head for expressing the kind of mindset said stand-up was ridiculing? I mean… you do you. Possibly with a vibrator.
I really don’t think it it is harder for vagina owners to achieve orgasm.
I think it’s just that nobody has any fucking idea how they work. Including many of the people that have them.
It’s dead easy if you take the time to learn.
You know the problem I have? Women don’t communicate with their partners. It has been my observation that women would rather gossip with their friends about how bad a man is about sex, than communicate with him to make it better.
The behavior I have got out of women about dating and sex seems to be as much of the effort that goes into the whole thing as possible should be transferred to the man.
- It’s his job to ask a woman out.
- It’s his job to plan the date.
- It’s his job to pick her up and drive her to the restaurant/theater/skating rink/gladiatorial arena.
- It’s his job to pay for everything.
- It’s his job to drive her to his place.
- It’s his job to open the car door for her.
- It’s his job to carry her body into the house as she goes limp.
- It’s his job to undress her.
- It’s his job to undress him.
- It’s his job to put on a condom.
- It’s his job to fuck her.
- It’s his job to give her an orgasm.
All of this ideally without any of her active participation or input, because dating, romance and sex are things that are done to women by men, and her job is to absorb it all like a tampon.
I’ve been with chicks that didn’t seem to care if they came, because they weren’t able or willing to articulate what they wanted in bed. If she doesn’t care, why should I? It starts eroding your ability to trust women after awhile. What else won’t you talk to me about? What other problems are brewing that you’re going to explode at me later? What else can I just not take your word for because you won’t just talk to me? If this isn’t what you want, what DO you want, and what is your plan on getting it? What is this sex eventually going to cost me?
Lesbians of Lemmy, are lesbians as useless as straight women?
To answer your question:
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When it comes to initiating, somewhat. A lot of queer women, would much rather stand around giving hints than making moves, especially ones who primarily have experience with men (and I’ve noticed a tendency for bi women to especially expect lesbians to play all of the masculine roles).
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Date planning is a toss up, but ime it’s usually a lot more casual.
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We typically both show up at the location or meet at the driver’s home, and honestly I assumed that straight people did the same.
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You show up prepared to pay for both of you, usually you pay for yourself, and sometimes one will offer to pay for the other, usually with a response of “you really don’t have to, I’ll get the next one.” (That one’s also one where women who mostly date men sometimes assume you’re taking the masculine role).
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Driving really depends on how you got there. And who’s place you go back to is often reliant on a variety of factors, like when I met my wife we went to her place despite her having roommates because she was in the city and my apartment was like an hour out of town.
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Once again, had no idea that was an expectation anymore, sounds like some 50s bs
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I don’t think my wife or I could physically do that, and if we stayed out too late or one of us got too drunk to get indoors without being carried there’d be an uncomfortable conversation in the morning. Also a lot of the bi women I’ve dated have been of a size that their husbands couldn’t do that.
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Undressing is a frantic, seductive, and silly display early on and slowly moves to a causal affair as the relationship matures.
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Idk, you usually strap yourself up if you’re going that route. You bring and prepare your own equipment.
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Sex is considered mutual or you’re considered a bad lay unless you were upfront about being stone (only wants to give not to receive) or a pillow princess (only wants to receive not to give) beforehand.
Ultimately I think the difference comes down to expectations. In sapphic relationships the expectation is communication and mutuality. Straight relationships have existing roles and it’s very easy to not see what you’re not doing or to think of it as only fair or even worse as adversarial. I’ve long been an advocate to women who date men to take on some of these masculine expectations at the beginning to create a foundation of equality and to weed out men who are uncomfortable with it. Hell, a lot of these expectations you listed are elements of agency and while yes it would be nice to have a no effort on my part but showing up and looking pretty date, it wouldn’t be a good foundation for a relationship.
I will note that I don’t do butch-femme which is more likely to follow traditional gender roles, and I mostly date neurodivergent women who tend to be more insistent on clear communication regardless of orientation.
I’m a straight man, I’ve dated mostly straight women with some allegedly bi women in there. The bi chicks didn’t really behave much different to the straight chicks.
Initiating. I’ve seen women remind themselves and each other not to initiate. Chanting “We attract, not chase” like a mantra. Not initiating, not approaching, not asking out seems to be something women actively and consciously want to do. I’ve had female friends over the years that have said to me “There’s this guy I really like but he won’t ask me out” and I say “You ask him out” and it’s “NO OMG I could never! What if he says no?!” Because rejection is for men.
Date planning. I was once SCREAMED AT for asking a woman where she wanted to eat. A girl I was in a long-term relationship with, who said “I love you” to me, SCREAMED IN MY FACE for having the utter audacity to ask what she was hungry for. Sorry for an attempt to be considerate, I’ll make sure that never happens again.
Transportation. Very early on, there’s the “I don’t want to reveal my home to you in case you’re dangerous” thing at which you’ll meet somewhere, and she’ll always be late because showing up on time is a sign of respect. Women are not bashful about demanding a man has a car, a few of them are bashful about demanding it’s a nice car she can show off to her friends. Most of the time when traveling together, he will drive his car, because it’s his resources being spent. Plus it frees her up to talk on her phone.
Opening doors, especially car doors. Oh for about 20 years it was “HOW DARE YOU open a door for me?! Are you trying to say I’m an invalid? That I can’t open a door because I’m a woman?” So men stopped, and now it’s “What happened to chivalry? I want a man that opens doors for me.” What women want is defined as what men aren’t doing. Start doing it, they’ll stop wanting it.
On carrying her. Somewhat sarcastic here, but straight chicks do seem to like the ending of Officer and a Gentleman. I can lift a person of my own size, but I can’t carry them far in a bridal carry, and women tend not to like being thrown over a shoulder.
On undressing. Most of the women I’ve dated, from many different backgrounds, of a range of ages, would lie down fully clothed and expect to be undressed by me. One told me she liked it. Thing is, ALL of them lay down fully clothed and then want to be stripped, which is difficult to do. We’d walk into the bedroom together, I’d start kissing standing up, she pulls herself out of my arms and lays down in the bed fully clothed. So that I get to lift her ass to pull her pants off, so that I get to lift her back to unhook her bra. Next one that does that is getting cut out of her clothes with paramedic’s shears. And she won’t make a move to undress me, it’s back to initiating. She’s passive, remember? Can’t let on that you want it, can never let your partner know you’re attracted to them. We must act begrudging.
On condoms. There’s a stereotype that men don’t like wearing condoms because they don’t feel as good, that women want men to wear condoms for safety because she bears the brunt of the physical risk. In my experience, women hate condoms. They want NOTHING to do with choosing them and do NOT want to touch them, like a condom fresh from the package is a revolting item. A condom is most comfortably worn and works the best when applied to and worn on a fully erect penis, so ladies, here’s what you do: Make the putting condom on moment as awkward as you can by being really weird about it. That’ll definitely help him want to wear it.
Sex and orgasms. There’s definitely an attitude that between men and women, sex is something that men do to, or extract from, women. Women often express dislike for being on top or the active partner. Some women seem to think sex is lying there and letting him use you. And, most on point to the OP topic, men hear “size doesn’t matter” and then are shamed for having a little dick, we’re told don’t be emasculated by my sex toys then shamed for not making you cum. There’s no truth, only manipulation.
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Maybe look for less shallow women?
And there it is. Everything is always a man’s fault. I guess women’s strategy is, you can’t be accountable for your actions if you never actually do anything.
Also, if a man wants a woman for sex, he’s shallow. If a woman wants a man for sex, she’s not shallow?
Not really, there’s plenty women who aren’t materialist and role obsessed. Therefore I’d suggest looking for a different type.
Either that or just visit a prostitute, you get to choose the woman you want and just sex and nothing else.
I often offer to use a vibrator with a partner but they rarely take me up on it.
I really like making my partner cum and it’s so much better at itI should probably use the alt for this, but whatever, I’m a grownup. I really never liked the stimulation from a vibrator, it is just too intense to feel good, sort of irritating and I am not hypersensitive, either, ok with other direct stimulation, fingers, oral. So it’s not a universal delight.
Among the women I’ve dated, a few didn’t own any sex toys they admitted to me, a few admitted to having sex toys they wouldn’t show me, a couple were open about having them but didn’t want to masturbate in front of me, one would, and only one chick would do toys plus intercourse.
Damn man save some sexually repressed women for the rest of us
I haven’t fucked my way through the entire American South.
Reading OPs post and the responses… What even is sex? Are we just rubbing genitals and hoping both parties get off without paying attention to each other?
Even casual sex requires synchrony, alignment, flow, attentiveness etc. That’s part of what makes it enjoyable. Climaxing is the outcome of the connection made, however temporary, by that synchrony and alignment.
Treating sex like a race to the climax will only make you worse at it over time. Depriving it of initimacy and spirituality will make it so that you need to chase more and more physical stimulation to make it pleasurable.
The process is as important as the outcome (moreso even). Focus on that process if you want to make the experience better for you and your partner.
You can be intimate with a vibrator.
What even is sex?
An urban legend. A myth.
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