• 6nk06@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    2 months

    will require identification and photo validation

    With all the privacy issues in the past few years, it’s “dead on arrival” as they say.

      • palordrolap@fedia.io
        2 months

        … so you don’t think Mastodon is a worthy competitor?

        How about Bluesky?

        • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2 months

          I like Mastodon but it can’t compete with X. The lack of discoverability is non-starter for many. Its greatest benefits are also its biggest barriers to mainstream appeal.

          Bluesky says it’s decentralized, but at the end of the day it’s an American company.

          They just aren’t the right tools for this particular job. What this “W social” wants to be is “European Twitter”.

          • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
            2 months

            The lack of discoverability is non-starter for many.

            The Fediverse significantly lacks behind on the Content Discoverability technology.

            I guess this is because there was a loud public outcry in the last 20 years that whoever makes your feed (this is called an “recommendation algorithm” or abbreviated “the algorithm”) has a lot of political power to decide what you see and what you don’t see, and that’s frowned upon. Because everybody that has power over what you see and what you don’t see is bad. That is why nobody wanted to provide an recommendation algorithm for the fediverse, because they would expose themselves to wild accusations. There should be an open-source recommendation algorithm, though; I’m sure of it.

          • 73ms@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            2 months

            what in particular do you mean by lack of discoverability?

            • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
              2 months

              like, i want to see posts from communities that i already subscribed to, but because there’s more than 1000 communities on the fediverse and i’m only subscribed to a small countable subset of them, i inevitably lose out on a lot of content. (The “all” feed sucks unfortunately). So how to solve this?

              • 73ms@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                2 months

                Well, parent poster was talking about Mastodon, you seem to be talking about threadiverse platforms like Lemmy. One thing that applies to both and every single platform that is large enough for that to happen is that you’re always going to lose out on a lot of the content because there is just too much content for one person to look at. It isn’t actually that difficult to subscribe so much that you get past that point in my experience.

                For the Mastodon-type fediverse microblogging platforms there’s some things that can help when trying to sift through the more popular stuff more (and less) similarly to how an algorithmic timeline would do it. Boost bots that track what’s trending and tools like Phanpy that allow you to check out what has been boosted the most in your recent timeline. There’s also starter packs (currently a fedidevs third party feature but will be added to Mastodon in the future too) and Sharkey antennas that let you watch for keywords over all the posts that flow through your instance. When it comes to things that aren’t here yet but are being worked on Fediscovery seems very promising.

                Maybe some of that stuff should exist for Lemmy etc. too or maybe the “all” feed could be improved.

          • sibachian@lemmy.mlEnglish
            2 months

            the “lack of discoverability” is the only reason we’re talking about this problem in the first place. algorithms have utterly fucked the world and if no one stops them we’re beyond fucked so the fact that someone thinks it’s bad and is unwilling to try using a platform you need to curate your own content on (like reddit before it went to shit) is just people willingly stepping into the lions mouth.

      • gedaliyah@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2 months

        If they built out a Mastodon network with government support, then it would.

  • I Cast Fist@programming.devEnglish
    2 months

    will require identification and photo validation

    Straight from the book “How to kill your app before launch”, page 1.

    data privacy at its core

    Looks like they haven’t seen the obvious conflict with requiring id + photo, unless they plan on manually review every application.

    After reading the article, it sounds like they’re just making yet another xitter clone with the hopes that govt figures will use it. Govts could just spin their own mastodon or similars for a similar effect.

    • CosmoNova@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2 months

      Yup. Nothing and I say nothing makes a service less secure for privacy than requiring your ID and photo. That data will get leaked. It always does.

      • gian @lemmy.grys.itEnglish
        2 months

        Most of EU countries has some sort of electronic identification system (in Italy SPID and CIE). You can simply ask to validate against it when creating an account and then you are good. You are verified and there is no dato to be leaked aside the data you decide to put into the system.

    • bossito@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2 months

      Considering the amount of bots and trolls everywhere I can see a certain appeal on an app that requires an id verification to be honest.

      • mbirth 🇬🇧@lemmy.mlEnglish
        2 months

        But if they’re doing it half-assed as most services (send photo of passport, take a selfie), it won’t be a challenge for AI to generate random IDs and a matching avatar for photo/video verification. The only way this could work is if they’d verify your ID by reading the NFC chip inside the passport or ID card.

        • bossito@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2 months

          True. I’d be up for that, but honestly more for a real social network for friends and family, like Facebook once was, than for a debate forum like Twitter. That demand could maybe endure that it would remain a friends only network…

      • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        2 months

        There needs to be high-quality discussion about how to make sure that users of social media platforms are humans instead of bots, but it needs to be a discussion happening in the open and not behind closed doors.

        Right now, the approach is to not talk about it and assume that verification can only happen via photo. It could also be done in different ways, such as using a QR code that you get at a supermarket; or by only allowing 1 user account per physical device (which would make bot accounts expensive). There’s lots of possible ways and none of them are discussed.

    • architect@thelemmy.clubEnglish
      2 months

      They figured it out. They damn well know they are going to spy on everyone with this.

    • Dekkia@this.doesnotcut.itEnglish
      2 months

      to ensure that its users are […] who they claim to be

      I dont’t want that either. Maybe for verified accounts this makes sense, but not for the average shitposter.

    • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      2 months

      After reading the article, it sounds like they’re just making yet another xitter clone with the hopes that govt figures will use it.

      Nothing puts me off more than advocating for a new product or set of technology without reasonably comparing it to already-existing technology. They should dedicate a section of their homepage to an explanation what’s the difference between their system and Mastodon.

  • friend_of_satan@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2 months

    I hate X, but good luck with this:

    The new platform, W, will require identification and photo validation to ensure that its users are both humans and who they claim to be,

  • yetAnotherUser@lemmy.caEnglish
    2 months

    Isn’t this just some random company trying to cash in a little from controversy surrounding Xitter?

  • RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zipEnglish
    2 months

    There is no future in social media unless it’s decentralized. Gonna assume this is dead on arrival.

  • Meron35@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2 months

    They named themselves W but those draconian ID requirements are an L

  • Melusine@tarte.nuage-libre.frFrançais
    2 months

    I am staying on mastodon for the micro blogging, not interested in centralized shit. Also, recommander systems are a plague.

  • Arcane2077@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    2 months

    I know Europe might seem like a country of you’re illiterate, but um it isn’t. W is a Swedish company with a dumb idea at the core of its app

    • bossito@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2 months

      Oh sorry, I forgot Sweden is in Africa. Or that referring to an app as European implies that Europe is a country. Luckily there are still people like you to educate us all /s

      • General_Effort@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2 months

        The basic building block of the Fediverse is the instance, right? Every instance is its own self-contained, centralized social media service that optionally interacts with other instances. EG Trump’s Truth Social is a Mastodon instance that does not federate.

        ATProto takes a more radical approach. Everything is modular. There is no instance or anything that is complete in itself. It’s more like the WWW. You can make websites in different ways. These are made findable through search engines like Google or Bing, which are not affiliated with companies offering web hosting.

        ATProto takes everything apart. It tries to avoid choke points or lock-in as far as possible to thwart monopolies. You have a server that stores your data (posts, etc …), called a PDS. You can move your data to a different server. An identity provider tells others where your account is at any moment. A relay collects all the posts that people make and makes them available for further processing. This can be used to create algorithmic feeds, or moderation (aka labelling). These things are independent of each other and can be independently offered by different parties. You can pick and chose which to use, though there isn’t a whole lot of choice yet.

        ETA: No idea what W wants to offer in that regard.

        • Croquette@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2 months

          Thanks for taking the time to explain.

          Follow-up question : doesn’t ATProto run into the same issue as Bluesky for example, where even though the protocol allows for decentralization, the vast majority of users are on the same servers, thus negating the pros of decentralization?

          I feel like this would be the case here where one server will contain all the modules.

          • boonhet@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            2 months

            Bluesky itself is behind ATProto

            Make of that what you will

          • General_Effort@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2 months

            The company Bluesky Social PBC created the microblogging service Bluesky and the ATProtocol. It’s like the company Mastodon created the microblogging service Mastodon. There are other services built on ATproto that are EG like Reddit/Lemmy. But these have not taken off significantly.

            The ecosystem is mature enough so that you can participate in Bluesky without using services offered by Bluesky Social PBC and without making sacrifices. For the most part, you can move without abandoning your account.

            It is true that the servers are mostly run by the Bluesky company, but so what? Email is mostly run by Google and no one seems to think that’s a problem.

            • Croquette@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              2 months

              More and more people are moving away from tech giants because of their shitty behaviour. So I think it is important to note how the data is used and stored, thus my follow-up question.

              Thanks for the detailed response.

              • General_Effort@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2 months

                how the data is used and stored

                That’s a tricky one and will potentially cause a lot of problems to open social media in Europe. Just know that there is no such thing as “looking” at a post, comment, or profile. It gets downloaded to your device and stored for as long as it’s needed, or maybe longer.

                • Croquette@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  2 months

                  I understand that. Just like Lemmy where all the instances that are federated have a copy of the posts and comments you make.

                  However, you have the option to create your own instance and federate or not with any community you want.

                  If there is one mega instance, deferating from it effectively kills the social media. Thus my train of thoughts.

            • Croquette@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              2 months

              More and more people are moving away from tech giants because of their shitty behaviour. So I think it is important to note how the data is used and stored, thus my follow-up question.

              Thanks for the detailed response.

        • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
          2 months

          So, my main takeaway is that ATProto basically splits user authentication and content storage and feed algorithm? Like, these are 3 separate things?

          You can have your own authentication server at home that basically just says that you are you (similar to a cryptographic identity), then you can store your content on google cloud and then use a 3rd-party feed algorithm?

          • General_Effort@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2 months

            The option to self-host your identity piggybacks on the DNS-system. A certain domain name resolves to the server where you store your ATProto identity. As long as you control the domain name, you control your identity. The ATProto identity is simply a pointer to where you currently store your data that your followers/contacts can use to find your content (IIRC).

            The non-selfhosted alternative is a central identity service run by Bluesky. Unfortunately, the identity cannot be moved for obvious reasons. It would be good if there were some more options there. In principle, if the ATProto identity was tied to the government identity, that would make it moveable and non-hijackable. For some people, celebrities and such, that would be a good option.

            Regardless of whether you selfhost your identity, you can selfhost a Personal Data Server (PDS), which stores your data and makes it available to the network. The PDS can move, cause that’s what the identity is for.

            Feeds and other stuff is again independent.

    • Katherine 🪴@piefed.socialEnglish
      2 months

      Doing a pure EU PDS is great; hopefully they do a Webview too, so that moderation and trust and safety aren’t at the behest of US Bsky.

      • General_Effort@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2 months

        That’s something that may cause some grief in Europe. Moderation in ATproto is opt-in. You don’t have to subscribe to a US moderation service or any moderation service. One will probably want someone to filter spam, harassment, or content that one finds objectionable. But moderation according to EU regulations is about removing content that other people don’t want you to see. I’m not sure if that’s going to be super popular.

    • EightBitBlood@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2 months

      Oh because people did such a good job the first time?

      Anything people make, no mater how good, can and has been purchased to be turned to shit and controlled by those that purchase it. In that world, which is the one we live in now, a government made and publicly used social media service is just about the only way to create a resilient and uncorruptable form of social media. Especially compared to current alternatives that are already getting corrupted.

      I’m not saying what they’ll make is perfect. But it’s far better than any other option we currently have. Knee jerk reacting to assuming it’s bad is very much the same crux billionaires used in the US to weaken the government that would otherwise regulate them.

      A government is literally the best suited to creating this tech due to its public utility. Same with electricity, water, Emergency services, roads and more. Everyone uses them, so our taxes should go to making those things better.

      This is a step in the right direction.

      • earthworm@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        2 months

        it’s far better than any other option we currently have.

        We have the Fediverse. Brother, you’re literally on it right now.

      • 73ms@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        2 months

        This isn’t actually a government doing it. It’s just some VC backed company that went to Davos to announce it.

        • EightBitBlood@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2 months

          Fair point. But I think you’re burying the promising parts of this article:

          W’s data will be hosted decentrally in Europe by European companies, and the platform will adhere to strict EU data protection laws.

          “We believe there is an urgent need for a new social media platform built, governed and hosted in Europe. With human verification, free speech and data privacy at its core,” she wrote.

          In her LinkedIn post announcing the launch of W, Zeiter emphasized that systemic disinformation is eroding public trust and weakening democratic decision-making.

          I’ve never heard an Elon say that.

          And her background is solid compared to tech bros:

          She earned her PhD in law at the University of Hamburg and later studied at Stanford University.

          W will be legally the subsidiary of “We Don’t Have Time,” a media platform for climate action, but the team is scattered across Europe, with offices in Berlin and Paris planned, Bilanz reports.

          And the whole platform is legally under a company dedicated towards climate action.

          Lot of wins in this article make me think it’s far from the typical VC billionaire babysitting service.

      • brooke592@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        2 months

        Anything people make, no mater how good, can and has been purchased to be turned to shit and controlled by those that purchase it.

        GPL would like to have a word with you.

        • EightBitBlood@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2 months

          Free software can’t be “purchased,” so it can’t be turned to shit 👍 Good point.

          To clarify mine where needed: the purchasing of what people make is what eventually turns it to shit. (Not just that it’s made, apologies if that was confusing.)

          So I completely agree GPL is fantastic and the way forward for us a civilization.

          Seriously appreciate this point as a great example of what DOES work well for both creators and community.