Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728
Ahoy mateys!
A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.
But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. …
More context
Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.
As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. …
Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.
In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.
Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated
i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it
I mean “leftist organization” is a weird term and I would more speak of currents. And there is definitely the Antideutsche or Anti-Germans.
The German left, at least the loud one, is publically dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.
Saying Hamas is antisemitic is sure fire sign of being a Zionist.
Palestinians are a semitic people.
If you want to saw that Hamas hates Jews, well, when your entire life has been being bombed by planes with stars of David on them, while jackbooted thugs with stars of David on their shoulder kick in your door to kidnap your family members in the night, and settlers with star of David necklaces show up and claim your home and land by divine right, I can start to see where you develop feelings toward the people who carry the same sign.
Maybe, just maybe, if Israel wanted the world to be a safer place for Jews they would stop associating a genocide with Judaisim as they are so fucking desperate to do.
You probably already know this, but Israel wants the world to be a more dangerous place for Jews to justify Israel’s illegitimate existence and aggression. That’s why they conducted terrorist attacks against Ethiopian Jews, to convince them that they needed to move to Israel as it’s the only safe place for them… where they’re then met by deep-rooted racism.
100%
Israel wants to be a Jewish ethnostate, but only the Jews they deem to be the “Good” ones
Antisemitic clearly means anti-Jewish. Sure it technically means all Semitic people, and as such a better word could have been used so long ago, but it’s intended and in use meaning today is very clearly defined. Jewish people have been some of the biggest victims of Middle Eastern and European hate for thousands of years.
You’re doing the #AllLivesMatter of religious hate.
notice how you worry about how palestinians defending themselves, but not about the millions of them killed and starved.
Spoken like someone that condemned the ANC as terrorists in the 80’s.
“Sure, apartheid is wrong, but the people suffering it and fighting it are the worst” <— you.
What’s wrong with the term “leftist organization?” Educate, agitate, organize is the common saying, organizing is the fundamental task of leftists.
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My favorite part is pointing out that most israelis are not white westerners, but from other middle eastern countries who were fleeing persecution in those countries and are more arab than western in terms of ethnicity and history.
But that doesn’t fit the nice narrative that all Israelis are white colonlizer/invaders from europe or something. Literally never had it acknowledged once, just denied and told that it is zionist propaganda.
No. The majority of Israelis are Ashkenazi Jews from Europe. They are European settler-colonists on occupied land.
Edit to add: I took a peak at your modlog; it’s filled with fascist brainworms.
Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.
Seriously, imagine typing “there is often only ‘anti genocide and pro genocide’ in online discussions” and thinking “yes, I will post this and look like a very good and moral person”. Yes, if you’re not against genocide you’re for genocide. Yes, if you think supporting the resistance to genocide is antisemitic, you are a genocidal zionist. This type of “nuanced” “anti-zionism” (liberal zionism) is also widespread on feddit.org.
By fucking german law at that. And they enforce it too. Never again, as defined by nihlists with no soul serving the plutocracy while the far right takes their country from them and fixes elections while they are busy surrendering their people to tech.
One of them was extremely offended in another thread when I replied to them with “I was just following orders”.
What I think they meant was that people here only think about the genocide and thus declare the perpetrators evil (which they are) and the victims the good guys (hamas are not).
One side’s atrocities don’t justify the other side’s. Excusing your own group’s actions because they’re the good guys is far right thinking.
In reality there’s more factors to this than just the genocide, and both hamas and israel are the bad guys in their own way. One is just worse than the other, but that doesn’t make the other good.
In this particular conflict, Hamas very much are the good guys (if we have to think in such childish terms) in the same way that the allies were the good guys in World War 2 despite the fact they were mostly genocidal empires themselves. Hell, Hamas are far less evil than almost every western government, especially the German one, because they aren’t actively supporting mass genocide.
You condemn all groups actually fighting against Isreals genocide. That is just supporting the Genocide with extra steps
Correct.
You’re wrong, Hamas are in fact “the good guys” in this conflict. The resistance to the genocidal settler state are good even if they don’t measure up to whatever arbitrary standard of perfection you have in mind.
Bullshit framing designed to try to equate between the invading settler state (with overwhelming firepower) and the (often barely adult) native resistance just trying to survive and protect their homes.
“Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.”
The world will be better when humans will be able to escape this manichean thinking.
Resistance to genocide is the correct position to take.
100% agree and that’s not what Hamas is trying to do or I miss the part where they protect the palestinians in their actions
“I proudly stand for neither the genocidal maniacs or for the armed resistance against them”. Most enlightened centrist
“Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.”
Copy pasting this shit doesn’t make you look smarter
Let’s agree to disagree there then. I wasn’t planning to convince you after all.
We can agree that you oppose resistance to Genocide
I don’t agree on that claim, no.
No, you just want to dictate from your comfortable desk how the resistance to an 80-year-long occupation and genocide should look like.
It is true though
ask an anti german what they think of muslims in the middle east :) it’ll be the most misanthropic thing you heard all day. anti germans are disgusting zionists and need to be shunned from leftist places. they are pro-genocide and there is no nuance to it. they are not part of the left, just delusional cosplayers
It does not make you a Zionist on Lemmy. You are a Zionist in real life.
“Opposing Hamas makes you a Zionist”, can you confirm that statement?
You said supporting Hamas is antisemitic. Why are you crawling back to the word Zionism now?
Me
You
Again you
Me
???
This is a Zionist defense of Israel by conflating antisemitism with anti-Zionism.
I think they’re German, conflating antisemitism with anti-zionism is their favorite excuse for why this genocide will finally be the good one.
Sadly, this meme remains ever relevant.
I see where you are going. Well, how anti Zionism and antisemitism are interconnected is subject to the current scientific debate and I won’t start a fundamental discussion on this topic with you. What is important for me in the end is, that I am standing against the left that is openly sympathizing with the Hamas.
Zionism is, and has always been since the modern movement started in the 19th century, intrinsically antisemitic.
If you don’t want to engage in a civil discussion, that’s alright with me. But if you run out of arguments, just stop commenting?
The modern left-right discourse is just so confusing to me.
I’ve seen authoritarians, supporters of war crimes, and support for terrorism and cruelty, all claimed as leftist positions. I can’t reconcile them with what I thought left-wing values were about.
I really think we need something with more dimensions to be popularized. The left-right system is just so loaded at this point. I personally can’t identify with either side at all.
as you recognized, this is a 2 coordinate system, and the split is between left-libertarian and left-authoritarian. your confusion lets me take a guess and say you sit in the US, where the libertarian/authoritaran axis has been compressed by the 2-party system, which is like putting too many cats at once in a small box - you get infighting, at least on the left; the right has the same, but the infighting between right-authoritarians(fascists) and left-auths(tankies) takes backseat. while the libertarian part is discussing in what type of society they want to live, the authoritarian part is primarily occupied with securing power, mostly followed by internal purges.
Your problem is that you’re an idealist and you think ideas can be translated into practice just by having the correct ideas. Reality is not like that, fascists will play dirty and capitalists will play dirty and you can’t win at their own game.
(Alt-)“Left” != Left, and in fact shares far more in common with Right (aka: fascism).
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I guess this is one of the reasons these “inter left” discussions are so exhausting.
And standing with the Zionists openly committing genocide
You believe it is evil to resist Isreals imperialism. That’s Zionism
Yes, opposing the main resistance to zionism makes you a zionist. Glad we all understand each other.
Edit: not that you’ll see this, I can see piefed.social dropping my replies to you because you have me (or maybe my instance) blocked.
This is all nonsense and you are indeed a zionist. Thank you for making it clear to everyone.
Thank you again for clarifying which side you are on.
“Is genocide bad? Who can say, it’s just so complex!”
Don’t be discouraged. Personally I don’t have the energy any more to endure the abuse of the mob (these “leftist” ignoramuses whose obsession with “Zionism” leads them to support literal fascism) but it’s important that somebody makes the points you’re making.
You should have been bullied more in school.