- peopleproblems@lemmy.worldEnglish3 hours
Me looking at my 2023 Polestar 2 LRDM:
“It’s ok. They can’t hurt you. You parked next to a 240i and you felt superior remember?”
- 3 hours
This is proof that you should never bend the knee or try to appease that facist state. Polestar moved production to the US and still got banned. They don’t believe in non-zero sum economics, you will always be the loser even when both party’s could win.
- 2 hours
You can…until they come for the kits and older cars. It’s also expensive and takes a while, too.
- Griffus@lemmy.zipEnglish1 hour
Someone from around here built themselves an A Ford. Second best disconnection only to the original Mercedes. Took them a couple decades, though.
- pageflight@piefed.socialEnglish7 hours
The U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security denied Polestar an authorization under the current Connected Vehicle Rule to sell cars in the U.S. from model year 2027 on. That’s because Polestar is a subsidiary of Geely, a Chinese automaker. Ironically, Polestar’s sister brand, also owned by Geely, Volvo, was granted the authorization in May.
What’s the Connected Vehicle Rule? From the Bureau of Industry and Security (is that a thing?):
On January 14, 2025, the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) issued a rule restricting the import and sale of certain connected vehicles and related hardware/software linked to China or Russia. BIS determined these transactions pose national security risks, as companies from these countries may be compelled to share data or allow remote access to connected vehicles in the United States.
So, the reported ban seems capricious, but I wouldn’t mind one solution: stop making cars connected. The key fob uses its local protocol for lock/unlock and remote start, my phone uses bluetooth for charge controls and status, and there’s a scren that uses Android Auto. Car companies stop trying to write UX and network stacks.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish8 hours
Being an American wanting an electric car must be a nightmare!
Not many options, and all of them are too expensive, because competition is stifled by keeping competition out with insane tariffs.In Europe we are spoiled with choice, lots of European brands with lots of models, and we even have American although we don’t want them, but we also have Chinese although they do have an EU import tax, to compensate for the Chinese subsidies.
But several Chinese brands are becoming quite popular, especially BYD and XPeng have become popular here in Denmark.
- redsand@infosec.pubEnglish2 hours
Hey just a friendly reminder those Chinese EVs are backdoored with an Elon style god mode like Tesla. Lots of modern cars have a similar issue but EVs get it bad. Tl;dr rip out your car’s modem.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish1 hour
I bet all the new cars are unfortunately, my VW is also constantly connected to VW.
We need to make that shit illegal. Until then we have to live with it, just as with our smartphones.
I know I can install AOSP and get rid of it, and I did use that for years, but I just want the hassle anymore.
- partial_accumen@lemmy.worldEnglish3 hours
Being an American wanting an electric car must be a nightmare! Not many options, and all of them are too expensive,
Chevy Bolt MSRP is $28,995.
1 hourI’m waiting to see if Slate can hit their crazy $24,950 target base price. With a 65kWh battery, that’s a pretty great price. That’s almost cheaper than buying batteries alone. I’m wondering if it will be able to do home backup power.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish3 hours
Just looked it up, GM claims it has a 65 kWh battery, and 150 kW DC charging rate. That’s not bad.
But it’s only 1 option. Where in Denmark we have 16 options below $25,000.
- ramble81@lemmy.zipEnglish4 hours
It’s gets better. Even if you find an EV, the states tax you more than an ICE car. Texas has a $200 yearly fee to supposedly make up for lost gas tax revenue. But at 20c/gallon and assuming 30mpg, I’d have to drive 30,000 miles to offset that cost (only drove about 8,500 miles per year).
And now they want to do the same at the Federal level with another $150 tax (federal taxes are 18c/gallon), which would be another 25,000 miles.
So I would be taxed $350/year to offset “gas tax losses”, which would only even out for me if I were to drive 55,000 miles in a year.
So by that logic you don’t have to pay tax for electric consumption, right? Right? Damn USA became such a cesspool…
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish4 hours
I heard about that, and that’s crazy. You gotta love all that freedom. 🤥
I don’t drive nearly that much either.
I understand the logic of the tax on gas to pay for roads, but here an EV is taxed less because it pollutes less. USA needs more of that.- ramble81@lemmy.zipEnglish3 hours
Realistically we should be taxing by weight and miles driven as the former causes the most damage to the roads. At that point the propulsion type and efficiency don’t really matter. EVs actually would be taxed more given that they’re heavier, but it’d also proportionately tax trucks and larger vehicles correctly at that point.
You could easily implement it with a yearly odometer reading with your registration or inspection and every car has a GVWR registered with it.
How about just metering charging infrastructure and taxing by the kilowatt hr? Power consumed is directly proportional to the weight, distance, and rate of travel. A simple mandate that all home charging stations have to have a wireless or remote-readable meter attached, and all public fast-chargers are taxed by KWh. Easy, simple, and nearly frictionless.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish3 hours
Yes that would be fair, but IMO there should be an environment tax on gas.
- 8 hours
Yeah, it’s extremely frustrating here. The EV market actively sucks with limited options and inflated prices. I also bought a used Polestar 2 last year, so now I’m extra frustrated.
My guess, however, is that PS just didn’t care to deal with obtaining the waiver- the brand has sold poorly here in the US and they’ve been posturing to exit the market for a few years.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish8 hours
For some reason Polestar doesn’t seem to be doing as well as it deserves in many markets.
I hope you can have yours maintained as long as is required even if they leave the market.It was a runner up when we bought our EV.
- 8 hours
If they’re priced the same as the US models, it’s little wonder they’re not selling well. MSRP for the P2 was ~70k USD which is a non-starter for most folks.
I got mine used at 4 years old with 74k miles on it (fortunately EVs generally tend to last towards 200k miles barring any other issues) for 20k, it’s the only reason I could afford to buy it. Otherwise I was probably going to go with an ID.4 which was at a similar price point. What did you end up going with?
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish8 hours
Here in Denmark a Polestar 2 is just below $50,000 excluding VAT but including all other taxes.
Competition in USA is absolutely destroyed by crazy tariffs.- atomicbocks@sh.itjust.worksEnglish4 hours
That’s still ridiculously high for a car. When my wife and I bought a new car a couple years ago we really stretched the bank to make a $35,000 car work.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish3 hours
That’s still ridiculously high for a car.
Yes it is a expensive, it used to be way cheaper, in 2022 it was “only” $43,000 IDK why the price has increased, I suppose they have made improvements.
Here $35,000 ex vat is a bit below average, which is probably more like $40,000 USD. Which is the starting price of the ID.4 here in Denmark.
Our 4 year old VW ID.4 cost $32,000 IDK including VAT or $26,000 excluding VAT.
So here we have nearly a similar hit for a 4 year used car! I hope you got a nice car. 😀
- atomicbocks@sh.itjust.worksEnglish3 hours
I’m not sure how VAT equivocates to tax tag and title here in the US, but for $35,000 car it should still be less than $1000. I pay a bit less than the average person because I’m Native and I go through my tribe instead of the state I live in, but I don’t think the rate I get is less than like half the state rate. A few years ago the same car would’ve been in the $29,000 range. At the time we got the car things were so crazy in the used market that it actually was about $100 less per month for us to get the new car then to get a four year-old used car of the same model.
Thank you, we got a Mazda CX-50. It’s a lot nicer than my 2004 Chrysler Sebring was with 280k miles (~450600km)! I’m not the primary driver so as long as my wife is happy with it I’m happy.
Hopefully wages will start reflecting prices someday.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish7 hours
We ended up with a 4 year old ID.4, 😋
We could have had a more powerful Polestar cheaper, except my wife didn’t want anything Chinese, and insurance was more than 50% more expensive on the faster Polestar.
But we got a nice ID.4 77 kWh battery, and with literally all the options included.
One of our neighbors however went with the Volvo, which is also very nice.Driving electric is really nice IMO, it feels absolutely super luxury compared to a similar ICE car.
- 7 hours
Absolutely agreed, I can’t imagine going back to an ICE car for my daily driver unless I absolutely have to.
I periodically have to rent a car for work (I travel a lot) and never realized how much noise engines make until it was conspicuously missing from car. The PS is also just super comfortable and feels great on the road, while my rentals rarely are/do.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish7 hours
The PS is also just super comfortable and feels great on the road,
If the seats are as good as in the Volvo, they are absolutely stellar. We have luxury seats in our ID.4, but the ones in our neighbors Volvo are even better.
We always had European style cars with very good driving capabilities, but I’m still impressed that the ID.4 as a CUV is able to match them, it is a good deal higher than what we are used to, but the low weight balance because of the batteries, makes it way better in road capability than it looks. 👍
One of the things I really can still enjoy, is when turning into a bigger road, that smooth quiet confident way the car handles.
But not having a manual gear is also a first for us with this car, so that is part of it, probably not much of a factor in USA.- 7 hours
Yeah, the seats are fantastic. I also know exactly what you mean about turning into the road with confidence- the ID.4 was the first EV I test drove and that feeling absolutely sold me on electric!
I never had the opportunity to drive a manual, so I don’t really know what I’m missing I guess. Automatic transmission is the de facto standard here. I don’t love the little gear shift on the PS and find having a separate parking button unintuitive, but it’s still miles ahead of the cars with weird buttons or dials for shifting. I didn’t mind the shifter on the ID.4 either, I learned to drive on a truck with a stalk gear shift like that.
- Fishnoodle@lemmy.worldEnglish7 hours
The price point for electric cars in America is 25-30k. 70K is mentally ill
- partial_accumen@lemmy.worldEnglish3 hours
The price point for electric cars in America is 25-30k. 70K is mentally ill
Chevy Bolt MSRP is $28,995.
- 7 hours
The average price for a new EV in the US is much closer to $40-50k with a range from $25k to >$100k per this US News article. Most EVs are well outside any dream of affordability for the average American, but it makes sense given the ICE market is also increasingly more expensive every year.
Polestar isn’t an entry level or budget brand- they make luxury vehicles and price them as such. It doesn’t make the MSRP less insane and I question why anyone would pay that, but there’s clearly a market for luxury vehicles here given the popularity of BMW, Audi, and other luxury brands that sell ICE cars.
- boonhet@sopuli.xyzEnglish6 hours
It’s just a Volvo. Volvo specialists will maintain it. They’ll also maintain Lynk&Co probably.
- phutatorius@lemmy.zipEnglish8 hours
I’m interested to see how the low-cost Chinese brands do on longer-term reliability. Their initial build quality is generally good, but their product cycles are so short that I don’t see how they can capture knowledge that leads to them correcting design defects. To me, it looks like too much churn. But maybe they’ll be fine. We’ll have to see.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish7 hours
This is absolutely an issue, having used many 2nd hand cars for decades, most of them Japanese but also French because they were cheap, I was extremely astounded when we bought a 14 year old German built Opel Vectra, we had it until it reached 20 with next to no repairs, before it finally gave in mostly because of a legal technicality.
When we had our new (used) car at the shop, and borrowed an only 8 year old mid range car, there was no doubt that compared to that, our 20 year old Vectra was still a way nicer car, faster, smoother, more powerful and better comfort, and also better looking IMO, and would absolutely be worth the repair that was only a sixth of what that 8 year old car cost on the free market!
Problem is that our old Vectra is $850 in taxes per year, because the fuel economy isn’t as good as newer cars. And that $850 per year tax kills the economy of keeping it.
Our new car that is heavier and way more powerful is only $100 in taxes per year!! Because it’s an EV. - 7 hours
I’ve got a bad feeling about overall repairability. Glue and potting used throughout.
- Korhaka@sopuli.xyzEnglish7 hours
Not like American EVs … Oh hang on, another bit fell off a cyber truck
- 7 hours
There’s a lot of knowledge about how to build a car that doesn’t apply to EVs. Similarly there’s a lot that does and it will take a while to sort it out. cybertruk is a good example of what not to do on many levels while charging a premium
to compensate for the Chinese subsidies.
🤣
rather to keep European manufacturers afloat. Protectionism under a different name.
European car makers too profit from subsidies and they make worse e-cars for double, triple the price.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish43 minutes
Protectionism under a different name.
No it’s not, the extra tariff is absolutely to compensate for subsidies in China. When EU subsidized Electric vehicles, the subsidies were equal for cars made in all countries, also outside EU.
China has heavily subsidized both development and production of cars in China. European factories do not get such subsidies, here it was on the sales, and was equal no matter where the car is made. For instance Tesla, Hyundai, Geely, Xpeng too received these subsidies 100% equal to European electric cars sold here.So why don’t you take that ignorant comment and shove it?
USA subsidizes American MADE cars sold in USA protecting their home market, and China subsidizes China made cars in general no matter where they are sold. And that is what EU tax extra. The tax is even adjusted on a per brand basis, so a manufacturer that has not enjoyed high subsidies is not taxed for it.
European car makers too profit from subsidies and they make worse e-cars for double, triple the price.
This is decidedly false, China is still catching up on several aspects, and the price is way more comparable if it’s considered on a level playing field.
Yes China has done extremely well in this segment as they have in others, but they are not better quality than European made cars. Especially not compared to German cars.USA is different than EU with their tariffs on Chinese cars, both in that they are way higher with 125%, where EU tariffs have a base of 10% and an additional protective tariff ranging from ZERO to about 25%.
- selfmate@lemmy.zipEnglish4 hours
Are these cheap european electric cars with us in the room right now?
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish3 hours
Personally I drive a VW ID4 which is a midrange car in Europe starting at $42,000 USD.
This Citroën ë-C3 is currently the cheapest at $17,218 USD excluding VAT.
https://www.citroen.dk/modeller/e-C3.html
DKK 139,900 kr. incl VAT is 111,920 kr. Excl VAT = $17,218 USD.Here’s a recent list of alternatives:
https://bilmagasinet.dk/guides/billig-elbil16 fully electric BEV car models all below $24,500 USD. 5 of them from China.
Denmark is traditionally a pretty expensive country to buy anything, we have the highest average price index in EU.
So I bet other European countries have even better prices.
- bedwyr@piefed.caEnglish8 hours
To be fair, Chinese EV’s should have tariffs also because they use virtual slave labor.
- timeghost@lemmy.worldEnglish4 hours
Also they are mobile surveillance devices for the chinese government. Unlike american cars which are rolling surveillance devices for the lowest bidder.
- 7 hours
I get this, but european Brands lobbied to not implement or stifle the supply chain transparency laws, soooo… none of them guarantee “no slave labor” either. Actually, given their opposition to the laws, it’s reasonable to assume they indeed use slave labor too. So what does that leave the end buyer with?
- phutatorius@lemmy.zipEnglish8 hours
Arbitrary actions are arbitrary.
I’m not terrified by that, just disgusted.
My guess is that the ulterior motive is to protect Tesla. Their competitors almost all offer better quality, and increasingly there are entrants to the market that produce those higher-quality vehicles at far lower cost. Musk seems unable or unwilling to take corrective actions, instead trying to buy the regulators.
- bedwyr@piefed.caEnglish8 hours
It’s not arbitrary, as your second paragraph suggests there are other reasons. Someone didn’t pay off the administration. It really is like that.
- justaman123@lemmy.worldEnglish4 hours
But they want to make money off the days from the network. Think about the shareholders value!!
- ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.worldEnglish8 hours
So the thesis of this piece is the government picking winners and losers in the auto industry through opaque mechanisms should terrify you because you should believe in total free market capitalism.
There’s plenty I don’t agree with regarding this administration’s trade or industrial policy. This reasoning though, ain’t it. It ain’t even new with this administration. I’m not getting the vapors over corrupt auto industry protectionism. And I’m certainly not concerned about whatever lib shit this guy is wound up about.
- phutatorius@lemmy.zipEnglish7 hours
So the thesis of this piece is the government picking winners and losers in the auto industry through opaque mechanisms should terrify you because you should believe in total free market capitalism.
Those are not the only choices. For example, a rules-based and facts-based system of regulation is another possibility. But the current system’s rule appears to be that the spoils go to whoever got a slice of Trump’s goldfish-like attention, or wrote him a fat enough check.
And you might well get the vapors the next time one of the US automakers receives a massive government bailout because their having been protected from competition left them unable to compete in the global market, or possibly even in the time before that when US consumers are being forced to buy sub-mediocre products in order to fatten the bonuses of non-performing parasitic executives.
And it’s good to remember that free markets are a myth, and that real capitalists love anything that shelters them from having to compete, even if it’s protectionism.
- ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.worldEnglish56 minutes
Don’t mistake my lack of sympathy with the authors diagnosis with my actual diagnosis. Dude literally complains about government picking winners and losers as the main reason you should be terrified in conclusion. That’s a remarkably naive thing for an auto industry editor to write with a straight face, to the point that it breaks credulity. You should hate the entire system, not just Trump, is my conclusion.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish8 hours
It’s because it’s not transparent and seems arbitrary, this isn’t mentioned but these are the perfect conditions for corruption or simple stupidity.
- Monument@piefed.worldEnglish7 hours
this isn’t mentioned but these are the perfect conditions for corruption or simple stupidity
At this point, I think it’s safe to assume corruption and stupidity are the default, much to everyone’s chagrin.
- Buffalox@lemmy.worldEnglish6 hours
They are the default, that’s why public services need transparency.
That’s not unique for USA, USA is just bad at doing these things right.
- ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.worldEnglish8 hours
not transparent and seems arbitrary
Opaque regulatory inertia favoring established players could be the story of the American auto industry for the last century.
