Angela Lipps spent nearly six months in jail in Tennessee and North Dakota after being misidentified by Fargo police through AI facial recognition in a bank fraud investigation.
  • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.netEnglish
    1 day

    "Fargo police did not cover Angela’s expenses to get home after her release from jail. Local defense attorneys gave her money to pay for a hotel room and food on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

    The day after Christmas, F5 Project founder Adam Martin drove Lipps to Chicago so she could get home to Tennessee. Fargo-based F5 Project is an organization providing services and resources to individuals struggling with incarceration, mental health and addiction."

    It’s bittersweet to read bits like this. It reminds me of the Mr Rogers line about how, in a disaster, you should “look for the helpers” if you need reminders of goodness to avoid becoming demoralised.

    I am glad that there are so many good people who are fighting for real justice — even people who have committed crimes don’t deserve the inhumane treatment they experience under our legal system. I wish it weren’t necessary though. These small kindnesses don’t make up for all the ways this imprisonment fucked up her life.

  • phutatorius@lemmy.zipEnglish
    6 days

    What kind of fucking court would accept AI output as evidence, even for probable cause? Where has it ever been validated? What are the documented Type 1 and Type 2 error rates in independent peer-reviewed tests? Where is the output that gives the rationale for why it said there was a match? Because without that, there’s no more reason to believe it than a Magic 8-Ball.

    And holy shit, she’s 50? That’s three miles of bad Tennesee road.

    • eddie@feddit.onlineEnglish
      6 days

      doesn’t sound like a court was even involved. per the article, she was held in jail 5 months before even being interviewed by police. that sounds entirely unconstitutional?? how does that even happen? like someone said below, i hope she is able to sue for millions. this is insane

      • Skankhunt420@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        6 days

        Well its possible because we have a constitutional right to a speedy and quick trial in the united states.

        So, since it is a constitutional right they get to shit all over it and do whatever the fuck they want to us anyway.

      • Bakkoda@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6 days

        The Constitution has never once showed up to save anyone. People show up to save the constitution. Or they don’t.

        • kent_eh@lemmy.caEnglish
          6 days

          Or they don’t.

          Welcome to the current presidency.

    • wunami@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6 days

      According to the court documents, the Fargo detective working the case then looked at Lipps’ social media accounts and Tennessee driver’s license photo.

      In his charging document, the detective wrote that Lipps appeared to be the suspect based on facial features, body type and hairstyle and color.

      Seems like a possibility the detective could have conveniently “forgot” to mention that the initial identification was by AI.

    • Test_Tickles@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6 days

      And holy shit, she’s 50? That’s three miles of bad Tennesee road.

      Alcohol can be rough on the body.

  • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
    6 days

    Let’s not forget about this part:

    On Christmas Eve, five days after the interview with Fargo police, the case was dismissed, and she was released from jail.

    But, Lipps was now stranded in Fargo.

    “I had my summer clothes on, no coat, it was so cold outside, snow on the ground, scared, I wanted out but I didn’t know what I was going to do, how I was going to get home,” Lipps said.

    Fargo police did not cover Angela’s expenses to get home after her release from jail. Local defense attorneys gave her money to pay for a hotel room and food on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

    This shit was barely one step up from a “starlight tour,” and only because she didn’t actually die of exposure.

    It’s sadistic on top of being unjust. The cops need to [redacted].

  • panda_abyss@lemmy.caEnglish
    6 days

    Spoiler, it wasn’t AI but a detective and a failed system abdicating using any thought.

    Why did it take 5 months to even interview her? What the fuck it’s happening in US jails.

    • XLE@piefed.socialEnglish
      6 days

      To steal a comment:

      [W]e’re seeing the first instances of what reality looks like with AI in the hands of the average bear. Just like the excuse was “but the computer said it was correct,” now we’re just shifting to “but the AI said it was correct.”

      Don’t underestimate how much authority and thinking people will delegate to machines. Not to mention the lengths they’ll go to weasel out of taking responsibility for a screw up like this (saw another comment in this thread about the Chief of Police stepping down but it being framed as “retirement”).

    • db2@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6 days

      and a failed system abdicating using any thought

      So the whole government at this point. Idiocracy was supposed to be funny fiction not depressing reality.

      Why did it take 5 months to even interview her? What the fuck it’s happening in US jails.

      Money and profits in that order.

      • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6 days

        For the umpteenth fucking time, what’s going on in the US today is not “Idiocracy!”

        In Idiocracy, the people were stupid, but honest. This is not that. This is malicious, which is worse.

          • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
            6 days

            I suddenly realize you may have thought I was criticizing you, individually. Just so you know, that’s not what I intended: I meant it as a general reaction to seeing that comparison made over and over again, and your instance of it just happened to be the one I attached it to.

            Sorry about that.

            • db2@lemmy.worldEnglish
              6 days

              That was what I read it as, no worries. I really can’t think of a better correlation like that movie though. The stupid people part is key.

              • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
                6 days

                Ah, I see how we differ now. I think the key isn’t just that they’re stupid, but more importantly that they’re incurious, mean-spirited, cowardly, and duped by propaganda. And that the leadership is malicious and corrupt, not merely incompetent. As such, I think just about every other dystopia is a better fit than Idiocracy is. 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Star Wars: Andor – take your pick!

      • atomicbocks@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        6 days

        Idiocracy is about what happens after the current time when smarter more level headed people are trying to put the pieces back together. We are in the prequel era, things are going to get worse before they get better.

    • nucleative@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6 days

      Yeah the 5 months thing… That’s the difference between having a $400/hour lawyer and no lawyer. The first guy could get you out by 6:00 p.m. on bail. If you have no lawyer, your appointment to be assigned lawyer is scheduled for next month.

      • billwashere@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6 days

        This is the part that infuriates me. The cops that fucked up will face no repercussions. It’s the tax payers that will foot the bill for this obviously incoming lawsuit and settlement. The solution is clear. Make cops get the equivalent of doctor’s malpractice insurance. Then make the insurance companies pay the settlement. And when the cops insurance payments go up, the cop has to pay. Or stop being a cop because they suck at it. Problem solved.

  • Damage@feddit.itEnglish
    6 days

    Facial recognition software. Whether it’s AI or not is debatable.

    • XLE@piefed.socialEnglish
      6 days

      What’s the other side of the debate? CNNs are excellent at facial recognition and they’ve been around for decades.

  • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.orgEnglish
    6 days

    No, cops jailed her!
    AI can’t put handcuffs on a person.
    It can’t even make a decision.
    Stop deflecting the blame.

      • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.orgEnglish
        5 days

        Yes, the vendors share part of the blame.
        The AI doesn’t.

        Edit for clarification: AI can’t share any blame. It’s a computer program.
        The company that makes it is fully responsible for what it does, and the cops are responsible for believing its output over actual proof.

        • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5 days

          boy you really stan for shitty code don’t you? the AI did nothing wrong, it’s only bad people.

          guess what buddy: simping for AI isn’t going to save you. What a pickme tho lol… jfc

          • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.orgEnglish
            5 days

            You completely, utterly misunderstood my comment.
            What do you propose? Put the AI on trial for false imprisonment?

            • mojofrododojo@lemmy.worldEnglish
              5 days

              AI can’t share any blame.

              nah man, open your horizons. there’s plenty of blame to go around.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
    6 days

    AI is shit.

    Facial recognition is shit.

    But none of that was really the issue here:

    Lipps spent nearly four months in a Tennessee jail without bail - classified as a fugitive, she had no hearing, no interview, nothing. North Dakota officers didn’t retrieve her until October 30, 108 days after the arrest. October 31 was her first court appearance and the first time police spoke to her, reports InForum.

    Arrested and thrown in jail for 108 days before seeing any sort of judge is a constitutional violation.

    We hear about this because it’s an obvious wrong case to an old innocent grandma…

    But it’s not the only time it’s happening. And if this happened to her, it can happen to anyone.

    A lazy/dumb cop or ICE agent can just declare you’re someone they’re looking for, and by the time it’s settled your life is destroyed.

    We can’t keep kicking police reform down the road.

    We can’t settle for moderate politicians who say they’ll try on a few issues.

    We need politicians who understand that everything is fucked and desperately needs fixed across the board.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
        6 days

        This is like asking if you have faith in plumbers…

        But no, I don’t have “faith” in anyone or anything.

        That’s why I vote and advocate for others to do so, because lots of informed voters mitigates the threats from bad politicians.

        • Yliaster@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4 days

          Allow me to rephrase.

          Do you think it is likely for voting to create a difference?

          There is nothing constitutional about the US and how it operates anymore.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4 days

            Do you think it is likely for voting to create a difference?

            Yes, because I understand our political system…

            There is nothing constitutional about the US and how it operates anymore.

            You don’t seem to even understand the meaning of the words used to describe our political system…

            Stop asking rhetorical questions like you’re teaching people, start asking real questions so you don’t remain ignorant of how society actually works.

            Just ask someone else

  • reksas@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    5 days

    using and trusting llm at all for something like this is the crime here…

    but then again, maybe this is just test run for taking away “unwanted” people, using handily mistaken facial recognition as excuse. If cases like this start happening more its propably that, and if they start happening enough people will lose interest and it wont be covere by media so much anymore. And after that they have neat system where they can capture anyone they want and can claim “mistake” if they get caught.

    • RR∆S®MinoriMirari®.Prod@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 days

      I don’t see how in the world people never headed my warnings about Ai in general ever being involved in the applications of law, of which it should never be the sole source of proofs and never be the judge of basickly anything. It has a lot more to do with it’s general and ethical fallacies then to do with kerrens forehead, that’s for sure.

    • Newsteinleo@infosec.pubEnglish
      5 days

      There are 4 things that need to be true for a defamation case. The statement must be false. The statement must be presented in away a reasonable person would believe it. The statement must be published for at least one other person to see. The statement must cause harm

      The hardest part will be the second condition. The software publisher probably has all kinds of disclaimers in their EULA to cover this one. It also depends on how the software presents the information to the user.

      • 1dalm@lemmings.worldEnglish
        5 days

        The woman didn’t sign a EULA with the vendor.

        I would say your three reqs are met.

        • Newsteinleo@infosec.pubEnglish
          5 days

          It’s not the woman it’s the police officer/department that would agree. So, if there is language saying the user knows and understands that the system is not accurate then it becomes harder to go after the developer.

      • AA5B@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5 days

        I find it hard to believe the software gives a yes or no answer. It almost certainly gives some sort of score and it’s up to the human to interpret that.

        This is entirely on Fargo police

        • Newsteinleo@infosec.pubEnglish
          5 days

          If I was the architect of the system that is how I would do it. However a high enough score could still be sufficient in this case. The system made an assertion that lead to damages even if the assertion was 60% match.

  • alecbowles@feddit.ukEnglish
    6 days

    I’m appalled on how she was treated. I hope that throughout this whole ordeal she met kind people that treated here with decency and humanity.

    Also, if that’s how the US treat its own citizens imagine how people being arrested by Trumps immigration police are being treated. Scary times.

  • Beep@lemmus.orgEnglish
    6 days

    Also this is the best part in the article:

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