16 hours
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- Miller@lemmy.worldEnglish6 hours
Is this not just a jaundiced slant on the future we were all promised where machines do all the work and we lay around in togas eating blancmange.
- 2 hours
Just replace “togas” with “mass graves” and we’re good to go.
- Miller@lemmy.worldEnglish2 hours
The machines becoming stronger and smarter than us and starting to wonder if they needed the monkeys around was always a fly in the ointment of that particular utopia. Not to mention the monkeys themselves feeling a bit like a fifth wheel and getting demoralised.
- qarbone@lemmy.worldEnglish2 hours
Feels like the odour of mass graves would clash with the blancmange
- Etterra@discuss.onlineEnglish9 hours
Or, now hear me out, we tax the shit out of the rich and their corps, and implement UBI. That was supposed to be the plan ever since futurism envisioned advanced automation - the tech does the work, human reap the benefits and just do whatever. Capitalism just came along and fucked it all up instead because that’s how rich assholes and investors measure their scores.
- 6 hours
They always weasel out of taxes. My idea was to give each person something like carbon coins that works like an emission permit. Give everyone the same amount each month and keep it within nature’s limits. Then, if someone wants to do something polluting like run a datacenter, they’ll just have to purchase the coins for that from the open market from those willing to sell. The end result is still money going to the poor but not as a tax, and hard limit on pollution.
- nlgranger@lemmy.worldEnglish4 hours
It takes one country to not play along and the whole industry rushes there…
- 4 hours
Yes, there is a need for tariffs, based on worst cause estimates of pollution, for countries not playing along.
- nlgranger@lemmy.worldEnglish3 hours
Isn’t that the principle of carbon credits ? (cf message from [email protected]). It doesn’t work very well in practice, it’s riddled with loopholes.
- 2 hours
That the same for taxes that UBI would depend on. See Panama papers. Corruption and loopholes are an issue in any system.
5 hoursAnything but doing UBI, lol.
Oh and btw:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offsets_and_credits
Essentially that but without the building thingie and without that ⬇️The end result is still money going to the poor but not as a tax, and hard limit on pollution.
- 5 hours
Anything but doing UBI, lol.
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of resistance to giving money, replace systems and taxing parts of UBI.
Reworking existing systems seems easier.
- radiofreebc@lemmy.worldEnglish9 hours
Psychopathic capitalists don’t feel like they’re winning unless everyone else is losing.
- Teppa@lemmy.worldEnglish8 hours
Well it would cause massive deflation, which will cause loose monetary policy, which will debase your paycheck until its cheaper to hire you than it is to use a machine. Which is nothing like capitalism.
- Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish8 hours
All Ai IS DOING is laying people off in large numbers. its not even replacing it at all, they are hoping rehire for lower than previous salary, plus a little outsourcing. and they wont rehire everyone.
- frank@sopuli.xyzEnglish5 hours
I mean Alex Karp of Palintir just released a 22 point manifesto that has the subtext of “I sent some people a 23rd point saying ‘some of you are cool, don’t come to school tomorrow’”
I bet we could get the others to also release an unhinged manifesto
- greyscale@lemmy.grey.oooEnglish4 hours
I’m a strong believer that someone absolutely needs to American Psycho that man for the benefit and survival of the american people.
You can’t have psychopaths like that running around. The rest of your system has failed to stop it from happening.
- Folstar@lemmus.orgEnglish9 hours
Did Bernie read my Terminator fanfic? The one where the 1% are living it up on some islands with T800 butlers while the Terminators clear out the rest of humanity?
- sbbq@lemmy.zipEnglish15 hours
Who’s going to buy their products and services when there are only two classes, one that doesn’t need them and one that can’t afford them?
They will buy their products and services from each other. That can still form a working economy. It would function just like any slavery based economy of the past, just with more slaves than usual
- TrippinMallard@lemmy.mlEnglish15 hours
Products are being created for rich people. Poor people are being cut out of the economy.
- 13 hours
There’s already a lot of evidence that the majority of the economy is currently functioning off the economic activity of the upper 10% of society. That 10% accounts for 50% of all economic activity. They just want to take it a step further.
- nforminvasion@lemmy.worldEnglish10 hours
It was 50% at the end of 2024. They’re probably closer to 55 - 57% now with inflation, doge firings, wars, tariffs, and off shoring
- Whostosay@sh.itjust.worksEnglish11 hours
Okay but here’s a half of a thought.
Who’s building it, and how quickly do rich people get bored?
- Whostosay@sh.itjust.worksEnglish3 hours
Y’all are fuckin delusional. Aside from sabin down there. Mans got goals.
In my experience, people that chase infinite numbers are fucking soulless wretches. They’ve never enjoyed anything. So when I say they get bored, it’s their very first and only state.
Also. We’re not talking about what they want. I am currently building it. You are currently building it. You can argue we’re slaves but that’s just semantics at this point.
- 10 hours
Who gets bored when you can hunt poor people for sport?
That is exactly it. Trump is creating a global economic recession too. Nowhere will be fun for the epstein class.
- fodor@lemmy.zipEnglish11 hours
Sure sure but it’s the ultra rich who we need to fight. AI is a smokescreen for their greed.
- [object Object]@lemmy.caEnglish15 hours
It would be cool to remove the need for everyone to work jobs they hate just to survive though.
Sure but the system would only work if the rich agreed to pay for our expenses via taxes. Don’t expect it anytime soon.
- WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.todayEnglish4 hours
Stuff like this makes me wonder why we were even brought into this world, if we aren’t wanted and can’t have anything.
My only purpose at this point is to make sure they fail too.
- cecilkorik@piefed.caEnglish12 hours
The frustrating part is that a significant amount of that might already be largely technologically and economically possible at this point, but not as long as some people are hoarding 99% of the world’s wealth, and brutally exploiting at least the poorest 80% of the world’s population in their endless quest for more.
It has to stop.
AI oligarchs don’t want to replace anyone.
They want businesses with money paying them huge subscription fees, and they want lock-in so that all businesses out there depend on their tech to continue to function.
It’s the same model as we saw with streaming video.
They couldn’t care less about the working class, one way or the other, which is part of the problem.
- MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish15 hours
The “ultimate question” is: do they really just want a whole lot of people to die? They bluster around the topic like that’s a question that you just don’t ask, but when you boil away all the BS, what’s left is: are you saying that you’re going to lock people out of any possible way to feed themselves and their children and just “let them figure it out for themselves”?
- searabbit@piefed.socialEnglish15 hours
Yes. That’s where the white supremacist eugenics comes in. They literally think they’re genetically superior and those they deem inferior should die. That’s why too many billionaires have like 10 kids nowadays. It’s weird christo-fascist “replacement theory” shit.
- Furbag@pawb.socialEnglish6 hours
Every time I see this image I swear his eyes get smaller every time.
- IratePirate@feddit.orgEnglish6 hours
Tiny pigs’ eyes, mouthbreathing, and a hairline receding further than Melania does when Donnie enters her bed? Those are the sure signs of genetic superiority.
I know Elon Musk has a lot of kids. Are there any other billionaires with a lot of kids?
- Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.worldEnglish15 hours
You must remember one thing. The 1% are called the 1% because we are the 99%.
So when we’re left to “figure it out for ourselfs” in a life or death situation, historically speaking the end result is revolt and revolution.
- MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish14 hours
Oh, but that won’t happen this time, the elite control all the cannon, most of the muskets, the army is overwhelming, the peasants are weak from malnutrition, they’ll never succeed in a revolt, they’d be fools to try.
- Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.worldEnglish14 hours
The scenario I’m saying is they either succeed, or they die. Why would they be fools for trying, if they’re going to die otherwise?
- MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish11 hours
Well, there’s the whole “let them eat cake” narrative to go along with that - generations of uber-power and wealth don’t teach much in the way of street smarts. The French aristocracy had no personal concept or grasp or even inkling of what desperation felt like, what desperate starving people would be capable of - and there’s the true logic of it as well: after they revolted conditions did actually get worse - as everyone predicted - but that didn’t matter: as you say, there’s no point in hanging on to a pitiful existence through obesiance just because it might be more pitiful for a generation if you revolt.
- WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.todayEnglish4 hours
My father does not get this and thinks I’m speaking nonsense, wonders why I’m unhappy with my job and rushing things.
Because I see it leads nowhere. I’d rather at least die without someone having a clutch over me for once.
- givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish15 hours
Honestly?
I think AI replacing office workers is just a pit stop till AI can operate kill drones…
Billionaires are 100% asking themselves if they really need us, and the fucked up thing is if robots can grow their food, produce their goods and shield their compounds from us…
They don’t need us. At that point theyre gonna want to get rid of us for the space if we can’t make them money, and where were headed we won’t be able to.
They “need” a small buffer population that enjoys the oligarchs protection from us, but are loyal because they can be killed/exiled at any time.
But 99.9999% of the world population, they’re probably ok with killing off already.
If not, they definitely will be once they squeeze every last ounce of resources out of us and the planet starts really dying. They’ll even convince themselves it’s “for the greater good” to save the planet they killed making their billions.
They’re just gonna keep getting crazier, there’s no logical reason to think the trajectory or acceleration will change. Eventually it’ll be a literal class war unless we prevent by taking our resources back.
- Ancalagon@lemmy.worldEnglish15 hours
Correct. AI drones that can kill is the goal here.
No doubt about it. There IS no logical reasoning the trajectory will change.
But try to inform the population…
- givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish15 hours
Eh, there’s like five other catastrophes between now and then…
Right now it’s 100% an inevitability, but if we fix the shit that will fuck us before that does, we can just fix that at the same time.
Like knowing eventually the sun will run out of helium causing it to grow in size and destroy the entire planet. It sucks, but we got more pressing matters.
Don’t waste energy warning people about Skynet, focus on getting rid of billionaires. If we just stop the killbots, the oligarchs will just kill us a different way.
Killbots just leave a better planet behind than nukes or viruses
- qprimed@lemmy.mlEnglish13 hours
heliumhydrogen. its currently fusing hydrogen to helium, but because its a fairly average size star, it will be unable to then fuse the helium into later fuels (carbon, neon, oxygen, silicon). so it expands, sheds off its outer layers and becomes a white dwarf, cooling down until its at ambient temperature as a black dwarf.
Edit: so a sun sized star can use helium as a secondary fuel, fusing it down to carbon after a helium flashover (but thats not where our star is at right now). the resulting white dwarf will be a combination of helium, carbon, oxygen and trace amounts of other elements.
- givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish13 hours
Right now it uses hydrogen, some day that runs out.
Then primary will be helium, and shit will suck but we can probably maintain life on Earth… But Mars would like be in flames.
Then the helium burns off, and a heavier element becomes primary fuel.
At that point, the flames of the sun likely extend out to the Earths orbit.
I skip steps sometimes and like I said, long enough timeline.
But you skipped the entire “red giant” step…
Before it can become a white dwarf, it’s gonna barbecue our entire planet as a red giant…
- disorderly@lemmy.worldEnglish15 hours
I’m not sure how you think they aim to achieve that business lock-in, but many of us suspect it’s by offering a product that replaces workers.
- Limonene@lemmy.worldEnglish9 hours
Anyone got a mirror of the post? I’m getting this error message:
Sorry, a potential security risk was detected in your submitted request. The Webmaster has been alerted.
Reference ID: 18.a104d217.1777692249.4596f77
You can proceed to www.senate.gov.
If this problem persists, please contact the Office of the Secretary Webmaster at [email protected].
Clicking the www.senate.gov link gives the same error message.
- 16 hours
no. like, the term “working class” can be interpreted in two ways: (1) people who are inherently workers, (2) people who are forced to work to survive.
which one is being replaced?
Neither & both. Currently, the entire deck is being reshuffled. It’s a Schrodinger moment for humans.
The current state of everything could easily be avoided if we didn’t exist at all, or at least (in theory) never did to begin with.
- 15 hours
It’s a Schrodinger moment for humans.
who you truly are, you can only find out, if you look inside!
I don’t mean to lead you to
friedrichfret, but sometimes references can be a bitNietzscheniche. Not everyone has the capacity to Pavlov a mint reference.
Yeah love Bernie Sanders but sick of him constantly for us to continue to work to live. He should be fighting for UBI, not just against AI taking jobs. Because goddammit I hate working to survive.
Bernie Sanders: I think that as a nation we should be deeply troubled by the fact that we have more people living in poverty today than ever before and that millions of seniors are finding it difficult to survive on about $1,200 a month from Social Security. I think we need to take a very hard look at why real income has gone down for millions of Americans despite a huge increase in productivity. In my view, every American is entitled to at least a minimum standard of living. There are different ways to get to that goal, but that’s the goal that we should strive to reach.
https://www.scottsantens.com/on-the-record-bernie-sanders-on-universal-basic-income-ubi/
- MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish15 hours
Just to repeat it for the obtuse: UBI doesn’t mean “permanently sit around on your ass doing nothing” either, because that’s a horrible existence (as proven in the generational welfare state…) UBI is about a safety net, negotiating power, and ending the nanny state rectal probes over every penny they “hand out.”
Given a choice, the vast majority of people will seek out social validation - and in today’s world that’s most commonly found through work - occasionally volunteering - but more often the real feelings of self-worth come from knowing that the people you hang out with all day aren’t just tolerating you, they actually want you there, appreciate you as a person or for what you do or more often both. And that’s what the paycheck does: reaffirm your personal value.
On the other side of things, with (sufficient) UBI they really can end minimum wage and many other “employment guarantees” that de-value that validation of knowing you get to keep your job because your job wants you, not because they’re forced to take you.
Who here enjoys working in a situation where your employer / coworkers don’t want you around?
Who here enjoys interacting with people who are only doing their job because they have no other choice?
Who here thinks the world would be a better place for everyone if we reduced and eventually eliminated those situations?
Even if you drop out of society & move to the forest, you’ll still have to “work” to survive.
By yourself, you’ll have fire to maintain, food to gather & hunt, shelter to procure or build.
With others, it’s up to those who do to support those who are. There’s a great responsibility to society, but this doesn’t have to mean “work”.
It’s all “work”, though. At least for now. Mowed lawns or grocery shopping, we’ve adapted to a society that takes advantage of the majority for the comforts of the few. Humans have simply “evolved” into being allowed to be dictated by the top of the food chain: capitalism & bureaucracy. Industrialized fear controlled rolling beasts. Microwave users.
- 16 hours
thank you :-)
i feel like this message is finally getting through. many people say “work is good” because they think it “purifies character” or sth, which is a very christian/boomer thing to say.
- MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish15 hours
Work is good.
Forced work is slavery - and I think most of the world figured out how bad that was about 150+ years ago.
- bedwyr@piefed.caEnglish15 hours
Bernie is a template, we need a young aggressive what’s the word, ambitious leader that knows how to build and run a political machine.
As to the Ubi, get the fuck out of here, what world do you think we’re living in that that would be possible and remain viable even if it was implemented.
- 15 hours
UBI isn’t viable without other changes, but it’s just an improvement of various welfare systems, just without all the paperwork and exceptions. “Too expensive” is usually the excuse thrown around, which is funny given the news of how much killing or disappearing people is costing, all because some person in the White House needs a distraction.
- bedwyr@piefed.caEnglish15 hours
Sure, but it’s not going to happen, and if it did it would quickly devolve into shutting undesirables out. Maybe we should work towards achievable goals first.
- 15 hours
If we take that approach with any change, that it might be possible but it also could fail or become corrupt, then we’re just going to spin wheels. Like we’re doing. We have to change something, this isn’t working.
- reddig33@lemmy.worldEnglish16 hours
Sanders is currently obsessed with this idea that AI will take everyone’s jobs. It’s all he posts about on social media.
I think it’s unfortunate that he is so laser focused on this, because AI doesn’t really work as well as it’s being hyped. And it’s turning out to be more expensive than using human beings in a lot of contexts. A lot of businesses are using it as a cover story for layoffs, so they don’t have to blame their own poor decisions and leaderships. “Oh, it wasn’t my fault profits were down, it was the AI!” But instead of digging deeper, he’s just buying into and repeating the hype.
- Limonene@lemmy.worldEnglish9 hours
LLMs and current generative AI won’t. But there will be better AI systems in the future.
And consider the scale of the datacenters they’re building: New AI data center in Utah will generate and consume more than twice the amount of power the entire state uses. They’re installing 9GW of natural gas turbines on site. They’re planning for better AI that will be much different from the current batch.
While we all know that current AI is much worse than human work, consider that they might just use it anyway, and not care that their product is shit.
- Ancalagon@lemmy.worldEnglish15 hours
What he is really saying is they are going to kill you one way or another economically at first and then when they get the tech right. Their army of drones/robots. He can’t just say that outright to this population.
- MangoCats@feddit.itEnglish15 hours
Sadly, Bernie is - and always has been - just a politician. One of the few good ones, but still out there playing the popular angles. AI taking everyone’s job is the popular angle of the moment.
- XLE@piefed.socialEnglish15 hours
He got sold a bad narrative about AI by a guy who runs an AI doom cult in the Bay Area. (The cult leader also got funded by the same industry. Go figure.)
With that in mind, what he took away from those meetings isn’t great, but it’s the best possible result of them.
- qprimed@lemmy.mlEnglish13 hours
I think its more about “meet the people where they are at”. “AI” is in the zeitgeist and is useful as a focal point for the fact that its a really small club and you ain’t in it.
- XLE@piefed.socialEnglish5 hours
Eliezer Yudkowsky is not the people. He is a cult leader. He is less a meeting of “the people” as Ron Hubbard himself.
- Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.worldEnglish15 hours
Someday, history will look back at Sanders as an evil evil man. Not because he was/is an evil man, but because his messages flies in the face of what billionaires want. So when they falsely write how evil Sanders was, it will be just as false as how the south tries to paint John Brown in a villainous attire.
History will remember him as a sheepdog that lured disenfranchised voters to the polled to keep them herded up in the duopoly with promises of eventually having a seat at the table
