• Seth Taylor@lemmy.worldEnglish
    21 hours

    I remember when people complained about sound coming from wind turbines. That was bad

    This? Good

    • Echo Dot@feddit.ukEnglish
      4 hours

      There’s a wind farm near my house and I suppose they do make sound although the only time I was ever able to hear it was during the height of the lockdowns because there’s a massive highway between me and them and that’s definitely louder. They definitely don’t produce infrared sound though, but way too big and the blades move way too slowly.

    • badgermurphy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      13 hours

      It does matter if the complaints are real or fabricated, turns out. Research on that topic confirmed that wind turbines generate very little infrasound, further reduced by their great distance from the ground. The amounts in question are less than that generated by other ubiquitous machines, so it is very safe to conclude that those complaints are phony, advanced by enemies of alternative energy.

      I can’t speak to the validity of these complaints, but there are a lot more motors running a lot faster in a data center than in a wind power generator, so it is at least plausible. The research will demonstrate if this complaint is valid or just more activism.

    • sup@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      19 hours

      Just looked up, a windturbine has less infrasound then cars. (german Source) I would guess the datacenter could have more infrasound and thus be a bigger problem. They mention a study about windturbine infrasound and they point towards nocebo effect, but maybe windturbines are at a border where the health effects are very difficult to measure. So maybe studies about the infrasound of datacenters could find something. On the other hand, datacenters bring a lot more pollution factors, like light-, air- and waterpollution.

    • mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      20 hours

      I dislike hypocrisy as much as the next person. So I feel where you’re coming from. At the same time, the wind turbines are generating power that everyone benefits from, whereas these things are consuming power for a product that very few people actually like or even want to exist. So I think its fair to say that maybe the noise is tolerable when you’re getting something you actually want out of it. Also, wind farms are usually built further away from large population centers, whereas data centers are because it’s cheaper to build them in areas with lots of people around. So the concern does seem a little more irrelevant to wind farming as a whole than data centers.

      • wabasso@lemmy.caEnglish
        16 hours

        Just out of curiosity, what makes them cheaper to build in populated areas? Doesn’t that mean the land value is higher when purchasing/leasing the site?

        • mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
          16 hours

          The article alludes to it: “The United States does not lack flat, open land away from population centers on which to build data centers. However, AI hyperscalers prefer to locate their campuses near existing infrastructure so they don’t have to spend massive amounts of time and resources building everything from scratch.”

          It costs a lotta money to run electricity and water to the middle of nowhere.

          Also, companies are doing research to specifically build in areas where they believe the local community is not politically empowered to prevent it from being built. This guy goes into some more depth at this timestamp: https://youtu.be/1CpVmPh3BDE?t=831

          • wabasso@lemmy.caEnglish
            16 hours

            Fascinating thank you. Brings me back to ArcMap training days. I wonder if they have some data layer for “local population acceptance factor”.

  • betanumerus@lemmy.caEnglish
    21 hours

    “3.7 MWh of power annually” - With authors like this, it’s no wonder some people find math and science confusing. I actually thought Toms Hardware was a quality site.

    • finnadrag@lazysoci.alEnglish
      21 hours

      Ok technically it’s energy not power, big deal. Sometimes electricity is colloquially called power.

      • betanumerus@lemmy.caEnglish
        20 hours

        Both energy and power relate to electricity formally. Power is energy over time. There is no reason to confuse the two in writing, especially if they know enough to use MWh.

    • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
      16 hours

      Toms used to be solid. I can’t place my finger on it, but sometime around the 2010’s everyone stopped using them as references and they slid somewhat into obscurity.

  • CanIFishHere@lemmy.caEnglish
    1 day

    Let’s use science to determine what is happening.This can be measured. Use a blind study to evaluate the impact.

    • GreenKnight23@lemmy.worldEnglish
      19 hours

      aren’t blind people more susceptible to auditory stimulus? wouldn’t that skew the numbers?

      /s

        • GreenKnight23@lemmy.worldEnglish
          18 hours

          but how could they make sure since it’s a blind study? maybe they’re only pretending to be blind.

    • AA5B@lemmy.worldEnglish
      20 hours

      The article states it is sound frequencies “not normally measured”. It doesn’t say “can’t be”, so the first step is an objective measurement

      Of course it goes further to point out that some things can only be heard/felt by a tiny percentage of people - the hard part is setting the allowed threshold and not perhaps that’s where your blind study idea would be helpful

    • Squizzy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      15 hours

      Jfc sounds like opportuniatic capitalists cutting corners and not caring about the populace

  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish
    1 day

    even if the infrasound is debunked, the pollution, the power usage, cost would be much more annoying.

  • OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    2 days

    There’s a local council in my community that is gunning for an AI data center in my county. People are livid, but I don’t think it’s going to be enough to stop the construction. It’s shady as fuck with hidden shareholders that nobody will reveal.

    I’m open to any and all suggestions on how to prevent this data center from being built. Peaceful ideas or otherwise.

    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.cafeEnglish
      1 day

      When they come up with it on their own, and push it relentlessly despite obvious and enormous resistance from the citizens, you know they been paid off handsomely.

    • Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish
      1 day

      they likely paid off the politicians before hand, remember janet mills in maine, she basically allowed one to be built and vetoed any measure to block it.

    • Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      1 day

      If you can’t come up with ideas in the “otherwise” category, you probably aren’t very serious.

      • AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zipEnglish
        1 day

        If they don’t respect the law or the will of the people when they put the god forsaken thing up, why are we beholden to the law and the will of the shareholders when we insist that doing it in spite of us is a Bad Idea?

        • Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          11 hours

          Absolutely. We are not beholden to the law and the obvious alternative is violence, which the poster is either being obtuse about, or really isn’t serious about being part of a solution. History shows that violence has always been the answer.

        • mPony@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1 day

          exactly. either the law applies only to The Poors, or it applies to everyone.
          if the law applies to everyone, then it needs to be applied.
          if you can’t apply the law, maybe apply something else.

      • Robust Mirror@aussie.zoneEnglish
        1 day

        Silly take. Almost nothing will stop it long term if they want it, illegal or not. And thinking of ideas that potentially could, that a single person could genuinely pull off, is not simple, no matter how serious you are.

        • Sculptor9157@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          11 hours

          Sure, that’s why it takes the multitude with the fortitude to carry on with the “other” actions. It is inane to skirt around the violence option as it is ever present in our history, and has really been the only solution for radical changes or shift in policy.

          Otherwise, where is your solution? Haranguing me for my silly take and nothing else to offer to the original petitioner?

      • FauxLiving@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2 days

        He really is, I found him from his Flock videos and have since binge watched everything he’s made.

        The music that he makes for the videos is a wonderful cherry on top of the great information and presentation.

      • EtzBetz@feddit.orgEnglish
        1 day

        Just watched these two videos 6 hours ago hahaha, without knowing him or the article or the post.

  • Agent641@lemmy.worldEnglish
    24 hours

    Homemade mortars have a very high CEP but thankfully, data centers have a large footprint.

    • Cherry@piefed.socialEnglish
      4 hours

      You have to use the correct messaging - data centers are making kids gay and entitled! and are owned by progressive libs

      /s

      • athatet@lemmy.zipEnglish
        20 hours

        Come over here and lift my finger for me, jackass.

      • zebidiah@lemmy.caEnglish
        1 day

        It’s like they’ve been genetically modified to be stupid and lazy for 40+ years with a firehouse of corn syrup and poor education propaganda

        • WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.caEnglish
          1 day

          Except the ones who are supposed to be fighting back have spent the last few decades doing little else but loudly proclaiming how much more intelligent and capable they are than the Americans you’re describing.

  • yesman@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2 days

    Is there any research on this?

    Back in the 90s, there was a theory that living near power-lines was unhealthy, but later shown to be bunk. Also similar to “electro magnetic sensitivity” like Chuck in “Better Call Saul”. Does inaudible sound effect people’s health?

    • Jesus_666@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2 days

      Yes, infrasound is a fairly well understood phenomenon. Loud noise at frequencies below 10 Hz isn’t commonly picked up by recording equipment but can induce things like anxiety, nausea, and sleep problems. While recently wind power plants have sometimes been accused of generating it, it’s also been caused by industrial fans and even resonance in a building’s ductwork.

      It wouldn’t surprise me if a data center’s AC caused enough noise at frequencies not normally monitored to become an issue.

      • SolarMonkey@slrpnk.netEnglish
        2 days

        Pipelines also cause a resonance hum that some people CAN hear for miles, and it drives them batshit.

        • AstralPath@lemmy.caEnglish
          2 days

          There’s a steam plant for my local hospital about 300m from my house. When I’m in my basement trying to record drums, I can audibly hear when the plant is running. Super low, sub-50hz hum. It gets into all my mics.

          Fortunately my bedroom is on the second floor of the house so the resonance doesn’t keep me up at night.

        • NPVT@reddthat.comEnglish
          1 day

          Spend time at an interstate rest stop. The vibration can be intense.

      • merc@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        2 days

        Anxiety, nausea and sleep problems can be caused by many things. One of those things is believing that a nearby datacenter is making you ill.

        Sure, investigate it and see if it is actually happening. But, do a proper double-blind study.

        I take this personally because my mother is a conspiracy nut who thinks that everything is making her ill: wifi, chemtrails, street lights, electricity, gluten… if she heard about infrasound she’d add it to the list of things that are hurting her health.

        • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          1 day

          Infrasound isn’t some fringe conspiracy theory, it’s well-understood, and infrasound weapons are banned by the laws of warfare because they literally torture people to death and can cause internal bleeding.

          The infrasound in this article is obviously less intense than a deliberately designed weapon, but it can still cause extreme discomfort, pain, illness, and stress.

        • Jesus_666@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2 days

          You don’t need a double-blind study to determine if acoustic emissions are the culprit. You just need to measure specifically for infrasound (and ultrasound, for that matter). It’s an unusual form of pollution but very much measurable if you know to look for it.

          Unlike the things you mentioned, infrasound is understood to be a thing these days and is sometimes considered in construction. It’s not exactly witchcraft; most equipment (including decibel meters) just isn’t built to account for very low frequencies.

          If the data center does put out noise at very low frequencies that’s probably some kind of unintended resonance that they’ll have to stop. It might be as simple as slightly changing the RPMs of some cooling fans or installing sound proofing in specific places.

        • chunes@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2 days

          It’s very likely that she does have some sort of health problem and doctors weren’t useful in finding it. It’s very hard not to be superstitious in that situation

      • partofthevoice@lemmy.zipEnglish
        2 days

        In one case, apparently, the infranoise was at the right frequency to resonate with the eye and cause people to hallucinate. This was due to a fan in a basement, not an entire data center.

        • merc@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2 days

          [citation needed]

          I fully believe that at times infrasound can result in anxiety, nausea, etc. But, in 2026 so can reading the news. So can thinking that your health is being affected by a datacenter, resulting in you worrying and losing sleep.

          This whole thing about the “resonant frequency of the eye” and that causing someone to hallucinate… that smells like utter BS. A much more likely explanation in a basement is carbon monoxide.

            • merc@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              1 day

              Ok, that’s a paper that attempts to explain the feeling that a building might be haunted. There’s nothing in there about causing people to hallucinate. They talk about the supposed “resonant frequency of the eye”, but then they say:

              The resonant frequency is the natural frequency of an object, the one at which it needs the minimum input of energy to vibrate. As you can see from above, any frequency above 8 Hz will have an effect and some sources quote 40Hz

              If the values are that vague, then there is no resonant frequency. There may be frequencies that transmit vibrations to the eye, but with a big enough speaker you can cause anything to vibrate.

              The closest the get to hallucinations is to say that "the eyeball would be vibrating which would cause a serious “smearing"of vision. It would not seem unreasonable to see dark shadowy forms caused by something as innocent as the corner of V.T.’s spectacles.” So, no hallucinations, just some blurry vision that might vaguely count as an excuse for seeing a ghost if your eye is vibrating significantly. Notice that that’s all just speculation, saying “this seems like it could be possible” rather than actually testing for that hypothesis.

              • fiat_lux 🆕 🏠@lemmy.zipEnglish
                1 day

                We had slightly different readings.

                As he was writing he became aware that he was being watched, and a figure slowly emerged to his left. It was indistinct and on the periphery of his vision but it moved as V.T. would expect a person to. The apparition was grey and made no sound… V.T. was unable to see any detail and finally built up the courage to turn and face the thing. As he turned the apparition faded and disappeared.

                He experienced a visual disturbance in his periphery manifesting as the false perception of a person. Even without it being interpreted as a person, that’s a textbook mild hallucination.

                Once V.T. knew this he calculated the frequency of the standing sound wave … 18.97Hz … plus or minus 10%

                Table IV on page 212 of this book shows frequencies causing disturbance to the eyes and vision to be within the band 12 to 27 Hz.

                Most interestingly, a NASA technical report mentions a resonant frequency for the eye as 18 Hz (NASA Technical Report 19770013810).

                He cited two sources inline with ranges narrower than 8-40Hz which indicate that vision can be affected at the same frequencies he measured in the lab. He even noted that everyone would have slightly different resonant frequencies.

                No, it’s not a full research paper, but it is the citation you requested.

                • merc@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  1 day

                  He experienced a visual disturbance in his periphery manifesting as the false perception of a person

                  Which can’t be explained by an unfocused eye. They do a lot of speculating to come up with a reason why he could possibly see something out of the corner of his eye. But, that’s only the physical part of it. It doesn’t explain why he might think that whatever he was seeing was “a figure” and moved like a person.

                  That’s like saying that ghosts can be explained by wearing glasses with dirty lenses, then going into detail about how dirty lenses can cause someone to see something that isn’t there, while ignoring the elephant ghost in the room. Except it’s even worse because a smudge on your glasses causing you to “see something that isn’t there” is really easy to test and barely needs an experiment to confirm it’s true. But, low frequency waves causing someone to see something that isn’t there isn’t something that has been tested. It’s pure speculation.

                  So, pure speculation that low frequency waves can cause someone’s eyes to blur in such a way that the corner of their glasses is mistaken as something that isn’t there. No proof that has happened or can happen, just speculation.

                  Then ignoring the elephant in the room that just because someone might not see clearly if their eye is vibrating, that is somehow magically interpreted as a figure moving like a person, which they interpret as a ghost.

                  There’s a humongous jump there from “a certain frequency might cause the eyes to wiggle” to “and therefore that’s why he saw a ghost”.

    • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2 days

      There is a lot of research on this. Exposure to this level of infrasound has negative effects on anxiety, the ability to sleep, and even cardiac function. Those who experience the level exposure associated with living close by to these datacenters can start to experience negative effects on their hearts ability to contract properly after as little as one hour. Take into account these people are exposed to this every hour, hour after hour, for years if not the rest of their natural lives.

        • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1 day

          I don’t recall being asked to. The question was “Is there any research on this?” And I answered the question lol.

          Now that you’ve been made aware of the research done on this you can go look it up. Just Google “Infrasound NIH” and I’m sure you’ll figure it out from there.

          • merc@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2 days

            The Environmental and Energy Study Institute (EESI), a non-profit organization, said that high- and low-frequency sounds emitted by these industrial sites can be heard and felt for hundreds of feet in surrounding areas, with noise levels reaching as high as 96dB for 24 hours a day and seven days a week.

            It says “these industrial sites” so it’s making a generalization, it says “as high as” so that’s presumably the maximum they measured at one of those many sites. They also talk about high and low frequency sound, so it may not be the infrasound that is “loud” but the high frequency sound, which doesn’t as easily travel through the ground, etc.

            Because sound tends to follow an inverse square law, if they measured that 96 dB at 100m from the sound’s source, it could be just 2% of that level at 800m away.

            So, that “96 dB” figure needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The figure as actually measured in some person’s home might be a tiny fraction of that amount.

            Again, it doesn’t mean there’s no problem, just that it needs some further investigation.

    • MrEff@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2 days

      Lots of research has been done on this. But I would highly recommend watching the YouTube video that was posted by the top commenter instead of trying to dig through what’s out there.

      • cheesemoo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2 days

        I’ve never heard of that. What sort of problems? And is there research to back it up?

        • Fredselfish@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2 days

          Lot cancers and not talking about your average powerlines.

          Talking about lines like this. Been near these? You can literally hear the power going through the lines.

          • merc@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            19 hours

            You can literally hear the power going through the lines.

            Which is the problem. People get scared of them, even though there’s no danger, but they convince themselves there is, and they get a Nocebo Effect.

            This has been widely tested. Some people claim that WiFi makes them ill, so they did tests. The tests showed no difference in people’s reported symptoms when they were next to a real WiFi router that was emitting WiFi signals vs. a sham WiFi router that was designed to look real but didn’t have any active radio components.

            They’ve also done studies that show that exposure can result in symptoms. Exposure to media claiming WiFi is dangerous, that is.

        • ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zipEnglish
          2 days

          He doesn’t have any condition where he senses electromagnetic fields. It’s a condition he made up entirely in response to how Jimmy violates Chuck’s world view where Jimmy is inferior to Chuck. It started soon after Jimmy got a law degree, it got better when Jimmy worked under Chuck, because Chuck liked being his boss and controlling Jimmy’s big case. It got worse when they had a falling out. It got way worse after Chicanery where Jimmy proved he can be a better lawyer.

          If Chuck actually had an issue, how did he function as a successful lawyer for most of his life? When he had severe symptoms, it was all around his head, his ears rang, his eyes hurt, his head hurt, so how was a reflective liner in his jacket sufficient to protect him for a season or so? Why does he routinely only experience symptoms after being told about hidden electronics?

          • merc@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2 days

            It’s pretty clear it’s a BS condition. Jimmy even tests him. It doesn’t mean that Chuck is lying, it’s also pretty clear from the show that it’s some kind of Nocebo Effect. He doesn’t want to believe he’s a bad person, so his body effectively comes up with this “solution” to the problem.

          • cheesemoo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2 days

            Right. I think the person you replied to was saying, is infrasound sickness or whatever also psychosomatic, like Chuck’s thing. Seems like this one may actually be real, but I don’t think they misunderstood Chuck’s condition.

    • Herbal Gamer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      2 days

      Wind Turbines can also cause this kind of disturbance. I remember seeing something about a lawsuit over that.

        • merc@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2 days

          That’s right. Even if the person won the lawsuit it doesn’t mean the science is true. It’s one really frustrating thing about the legal system, sometimes people win lawsuits based on absolutely terrible BS science. A persuasive lawyer has to convince a jury that something is true, not convince a scientist who knows about that field.

        • Herbal Gamer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2 days

          just because one thing turned out not to be true, it doens’t automatically mean you don’t have to believe any other claims.

          • village604@adultswim.fanEnglish
            2 days

            A lawsuit being filed doesn’t equal scientific or medical fact. You can file a lawsuit for literally anything.

            Without concrete, peer reviewed studies, windmills causing health issues is just as believable as wifi causing health issues.

            • Herbal Gamer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              2 days

              yeah I was kinda implying that the people filing the lawsuits were on all that business, just didn’t feel like spelling out the vague details I remember from a newspiece a year or so ago,

        • xthexder@l.sw0.comEnglish
          2 days

          This whole blog seems extremely pro-AI and their entire site is full of articles supposedly debunking why data centers aren’t actually bad after all…

          This specific article has some pretty crazy conclusions about Benn Jordan’s own double-blind study. They’re saying it wasn’t double blind because he might have noticed water shaking, but in the actual video he explicitly says he threw out any of the data points where he knew if the sound was on. The results seemed pretty conclusive to me.

          The other thing is it talks a ton about wind turbine infrasound, and how dangerous levels are thousands of times louder. But the actual measured level of sound ARE thousands of times higher. Measurements have been taken at 96dB, which is significantly higher than the 50-75dB this article is referencing as safe. If the 96dB infrasound is loud enough to shake a glass of water as above, it’s not “imperceptible” like the safe levels.

          As with all loud sounds in general, exposure time is a factor. A brief burst above 100dB won’t damage your hearing, but extended exposure will. I don’t see why the same wouldn’t apply to infrasound. All these studies are 72h or less of exposure, but there’s people living next to these datacenters 24/7.

          Personally I’m waiting for more research to be done. There’s not enough data to be calling things fake or debunked here.

    • flandish@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2 days

      worse. but this is just people trying anything they can to keep these pieces of shit from wrecking their communities.