In a press conference this week on New York City’s $12 billion budget gap, Mayor Zohran Mamdani zeroed in on the previous administration’s artificial intelligence chatbot as one of “a number of different things we’re going to pursue for savings.”
Based. Those things will only get pricier.
unfortunately we live in times where saying “we’re getting rid of this thing that no one ever asked for and never does anything good” is unusual.
Way to go, Mayor Mamdani!
Based. Good to see him going for common sense easy issues to keep people engaged while he works on the harder to tackle issues.
isn’t going for the common sense easy issue the opposite of “based”?
Has he made any comment about the massive data center increasing the cost of living there yet? /gen
I asked why NYC had the shittiest mayor a year or so ago… Now I’m wondering why CA doesn’t have one this good.
To be fair, we did at one point… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor_Max_II?wprov=sfla1
Maximus Mighty-Dog Mueller II
furiously reading through the handbook
…There’s no rule that says…
It feels ridiculous I have to say this, but it feels so good to hear about a politician just immediately saying “oh yeah, we needed to figure out where to make cuts, and these shitty AI chat bots seemed like an obvious place to start.”
Wild that a politician deciding to terminate an application (and its associated contract) because the application doesn’t actually work as intended seems so odd.
But I like it.
Yes! It is so sad this seems like such a bold move, but we’ve just become so fucking conditioned to bullshit politicians gaslighting us about why everybody else is just going to have to go without in order to keep giving handouts to the most entitled and useless pieces of crap just because they’re already wealthy.
Why? Allegedly because they generate more money… But do they really? Have they ever?
Adams is a dickhole collaborator. I’m surprised the contract was only around $600k. How much so you think Adams got on top?
I wish Mamdani the best. There’s so much happening to be able to ingest it all, but so far he seems genuine. My natural glare of “what SHIT are you up to!??” has so far yielded nothing; Good. More!
Just the fact that he added Lina Khan to his team says so much about him.
In a just world Khan would be a prominent political figure on her own, but she’ll do good things in this position.
nothing; Good
A semicolon saves the day.
I’ve yet to see any negative headlines about Mamdani ever since hr won election, aside from him opposing primarying Chuck Schumer for some stupid fucking reason.
Seeing the tankies talk about him on .ml would make you think he was leading the 4the Reich. Notice how the proletariat tends to win when we don’t engage in puritanical politics based off of red fascism.
Notice how the proletariat tends to win when we don’t engage in puritanical politics based off of red fascism.
I disagree. This just comes off as a half-truth. Mamdani actually is far and away the most pure candidate apart from Bernie Sanders in the whole of US politics.
what according to you is “puritanical politics based off of red facism”?
The people want inclusivity, better welfare for the working class people, better overall healthcare, debt-burden free education and we don’t want a government that’s corporate leaning, takes money from foreign interests, arrests citizens for no explainable reason, fucks up the planet for the profits of a few. We don’t want governments that support genocide, slavery or other atrocities at home or abroad.
Which part of this is “red facism”?
I’ve seen one today: “Mamdani admits massive NYC deficit! Proof socialism doesn’t work!”. Dude, he wasn’t mayor a month ago, pretty sure socialism isn’t the problem here…
Not the first time I read that kind of BS. In Cadiz (Spain), a left wing major said 1 month after being appointed that the previous right wing major left nothing but spider webs in the accounts. The right wing tried to push that as “only a month and he has broken the city”.
Is that a real headline? If so, that’s extremely dishonest journalism…
Conservatives don’t care about truth or internal consistency. They just want to harm the out-group.
IIRC It was newsmaxx or some other propaganda outlet.
The overly rich own most large news outlets so it‘s not surprising.
The tankies don’t like him?
Tankies don’t like objective reality.
They don’t like electoralism, prefer to LARP revolution while doing nothing to actually lay the groundwork for one.
Which is sort of wild.
Marx was very clear that communism could not be delivered by heroes on horseback. But then again, Tankies don’t like Marx, they like Lenin, the man who lost an election to actual communists and then had them all killed. He seized power via coup, and then made himself a king, and wrote how kings (vanguard parties) were somehow vital to communism, and how democracy was not.
“If your last name ends in ‘in’, it’s time to get out.”
Hey, I recognised that reference.
Tankies are chicken-hawks.
They gladly let millions of marginalized peoples suffer and die for a pipedream that those people will fight a communist revolution… on the tankies’ behalf.
Tankies won’t ever be the ones on the front line. They spam fuck comment sections and try to convince as many people as possible to act against their own self interests, to put them in a desperate enough state that the tankoes can more easily manipulate them.
Tankies aren’t communists, they’re red fascists. Same abuser mentality as the fascists they so gleefully surrendered to in November 2024.
So are tankies accelerationists or sellouts? You weirdos need to get your story straight
I’ve looked through the whole thread again and I don’t know where you’re getting the idea anyone’s accusing tankies of being sellouts. Best I can guess is that you misinterpreted the comment immediately above yours as saying tankies are secretly supporting the current fascist regime, is that it?
That’s not what they’re saying, they meant that tankies (I would clarify that it’s the chronically online tankies that are like this) want other people to fight the revolution for them, and won’t lift a single finger themselves until they can be sure that victory is inevitable. This is because they see themselves as the vanguard that tells everyone else what to do and how to do it, and will be put in charge after the revolution. That’s why people call them red fascists (though I don’t like that term myself as I don’t think they should be conflated with actual fascists, it hinders understanding), they want to be in the fascists’ place so they can use the systems of power and control that they built towards a different end (changing the economic system).
A previous person I talked to on lemmy.ml not long ago illustrated this mindset well, saying that authoritarianism is only a buzzword made up by the west to demonize their enemies, that it’s just people exercising power, and that it’s good when communists do it. Here’s what I see wrong with this: the tools of a fascist state are purpose-built for oppression, and trying to use them for anything else is futile. You will be corrupted by their power. We should not be trying to take and use these tools, but dismantling them and creating our own which are purpose-built for liberation.
Both. They’re the intellectual equivalent and ideological opposite of libertarians with equally internally inconsistent views.
Spotted the tankie. Cope and seethe harder.
Neither, because that would actually require praxis.
Tankies don’t like anyone, they’ll never be satisfied. I’m fairly certain most of them are russian trolls tasked with sowing discord and fracturing the left.
Excuse me, we’re Chinese trolls, thanks very much; we are unhealthily obsessed with China because it’s incredibly economically successful, it’s the last hope of actual oldschool dictatorship of the worker socialism, and it’s barely avoided being controlled by the market.
It’s incredibly centralised, it’s authoritarian, yes, but it’s also building all the solar panels and executing billionaires when they get too powerful and making the imperial nations look like chumps, so you should forgive us for our infatuation.
My lack of action and lack of building local organisation? Guilty. I’m trying to correct this. China is not the model for the West, and even the Chinese govt says that, so as a true Chinahead I do not call for Chad Xi to come save us, that is missing the fucking point. We must grow our own socialist organisations to bypass the state, and anarchists and syndicalists might be the best idea for the West, with our individualism and love of freedom.
I honestly can’t tell if you’re being facetious or not…
That’s probably because my thoughts on the matter are not incredibly settled.
If you omit the word Russian, I think you just described the entirity of the current reddit user base.
You’d be surprised. I read about a time when there was a power outage in moscow, and for the span of a few hours there were hardly any trolls active on reddit
One thing I’ve learned as a socialist is that there is always a purity test by people who consider themselves purer socialists.
Karl Marx himself could post on here and people would accuse him of being a neoliberal stooge.
but be very careful of labelling people puritanical. Everybody draws lines that when crossed make the other person untrustworthy. This should be encouraged for a healthy democracy.
Historically, a socialist holding an elected executive office of a capitalist government is a precarious position fraught with contradictions. You can only meaningfully govern by making massive concessions to the ruling class and betraying some supporters. Communists will stake out the “he will betray you” position.
FWIW the Mamdani administration is very aware of this contradiction and deliberately made promises that he can do by decree, such as the rent freeze. But there’s also been some rather heinous concessions, like keeping on a bunch of Zionists in the admin, and also keeping on the NYPD commissioner Jessica Tisch.
Why would you argue that we should stop doing our duties once we have cast our ballot and the candidate we support won?
I’d say they’re skeptical that Mamdani will keep to his promises or that electing him isn’t enough. But dislike? I bet every one would’ve voted for him.
Assuming they vote at all and don’t think the best way to show your dissatisfaction is to stay home and complain on the Internet
They can’t vote. They’re either not American or they’re bots.
I believe enough of them are American and Lemmy is a dumb place to create a bot army.
I’ve been accused of being a tankie, and I think he’s great. But obviously the McCarthyites of Lemmy would rather create a straw man than listen to anything a red has to say.
If you’re comparing shitting on tankies to McCarthyism, you might be a tankie.
Lots of people on the left hate tankies, because tankies are more fascist than leftist in praxis. McCarthyism basically accuses anyone with a remotely left-wing opinion as being as bad as a tankie, which is a strawman.
Tankies have more in common with McCarthyism than they’re willing to admit. That’s called horseshoe politics.
I would swap fascism with authoritarianism or totalitarianism. To equal the left and right wing in any kind always sounds like horseshoe theory. But apart from that you are right.
You don’t know what fascism is, apparently.
As for horseshoe nonsense . . .
I know precisely what fascism is, and the dumbfuck tankies accusing Mamdani of it are absolutely wrong.
I said they’re the same in praxis, not ideology. You’d think a fucking leftist would understand the difference.
And your picture is kind of a strawman in this context, because I wasn’t using “horseshoe politics” to describe phenomena of the abolition era. I was using it to describe phenomena of the current era where the contexts are different. But since tankies are allergic to nuance, I don’t suppose you’ll be comprehend that and you’ll probably just resort to ad hominems.
Yes dear, everyone that doesn’t agree with your nonsense is a tankie, and therefore wrong.
You were saying about ad hominems?
I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That’s a delusion no one but a tankie would hold.
Fascist tankies? Tell me you’ve huffed capitalist propaganda without telling me you’ve huffed capitalist propaganda. Y’all are miseducated af
Capitalists could not give a fuck less about tankies, what they think, what they are doing. These people basically only exist on Internet forums and have zero effect on anyone outside of their bubble.
Fuck off, tankie.
It’s wild innit? This whole section of children jawing about adult topics while chewing capitalist bubblegum.
Tankie does not equal any communist. People are fine with listening to socialists and communists, it’s MLs they draw the line at.
I am an ML as are most communists.
How does a system that requires a stateless society appeal to hierarchists like tankies?
Yes that’s obvious when you said you were called a tankie.
Still doesn’t mean everyone hates communism/socialism.
False accusations mean nothing.
I just headed over to .ml and did a local search for “mamdani”
I see a bunch of the more conservatives Democrats and their supporters complaining about him and conservatives of all stripes are really hoping he’ll fail.
I’ve been called a tankie several times and I rather like Mamdani. I see him, AOC, and Sanders as the best hope for the future of the US.
Where are these tankies that hate Mamdani so much? What do they hate him for?
They don’t.
There’s two main criticisms of Zohran that come from the left.
One is that while good, his victory is going to be limited because the mayor has little power to enact systematic change. The keeping of Tisch (likely to avoid a war with Hochul he can’t win) is a point for this
The second is that it reinforces the Democratic party which actively opposes socialism, by giving it a face of that. And that in that way it also serves to dilute actual revolutionary energy, etc.
You don’t have to agree with those arguments - I don’t fully. But those are them. But considering the person here is hitting a shitlib trifecta - screaming about tankies and horseshoe theory, conspiracy theories about Russian bots, and claiming “nuance” when caught in obvious contradictions - theyre not going to make an actual argument. Just claim ownership of the left for the center, again.
What’s a “tankie”?
Authoritarian-Communist.
Named after the mostly Marxist-Leninist leftists who supported the Soviets brutality in the Hungarian Revolution of 1956, when they sent into tanks to kill the student democratic uprising.
Used by non-auth leftists for decades, past few years some centrists and rightists have started using it for anything left that they don’t like as calling everyone communists wasn’t working any more. These days it generally means anyone who supports China, Russia, blames Ukraine, etc.
The irony of the use in respect to Ukraine is that they’re calling anyone not wanting to send tanks a tankie.
That’s not ironic, because they’re not calling for the tanks to crush innocent people but to stop imperialist invaders.
As long as someone else gets drafted to die in the trenches, right?
You’re either disingenuous or beyond naive about ethnic and nationalistic conflict.
How about Russia doesn’t invade Ukraine and no one has to get fucking drafted.
Tankies love imperialism, it’s sickening how willing you are to throw innocent lives away.
Yeah I’m not searching that term either
Where are these tankies that hate Mamdani so much? What do they hate him for?
I have seen a few, here is one I saved from some time back.
https://lemmy.ml/post/39249375
A lot of things get removed from
.mlso its hard to go back find things sometimes. If you are around lemmy a while you will find quite a few takes from tankies.Perhaps in light of your recent post here, https://lemmy.world/post/42467256, you may stop to reconsider your comments about tankies.
Why should I? Tankies at the end of the day are counter productive to organizing and simp for authoritarians.
🤣 zero (intentional) irony. Not you, you couldn’t possibly be taken by a CIA psyop!
Consider this: if that’s true, why does the West take in Nazis and brutally crush AES? Perhaps you could actually dig into what Operation Gladio and Operation Condor did.
Not you, you couldn’t possibly be taken by a CIA psyop!
Anyone can, we are all people.
Still, tankies are simps for authoritarians. Further they discourage electoralism which is a big form of organizing here in the west. I’ve said it before, elections are not the end all be all, but it is a mistake to neglect them as they do add credibility to our movements and shifts the overton window to our favor. If anything tankies are the best form of the left that J Edgar Hoover would have wanted for us; unwilling to enage and toxic.
Anyway, that is a summary of why I don’t think tankies are worth much time. Unless you have something worth talking about Im not going to engage further.
why does the West take in Nazis and brutally crush AES? Perhaps you could actually dig into what Operation Gladio and Operation Condor did.
Like this, two things can be wrong at the same time. Tankies have a hard time understanding that.
Idk, the post calls him infiltrator but there is -54 likes. It just looks like general .ml likes Mamdani.
Also if they are removing the posts and comments against him, doesn’t that mean he is liked over there?
So I had a look at the voting score and only 5 of those down votes came from .ml, most are from .world accounts.
doesn’t that mean he is liked over there?
Hard to say, I have seen a few that outright don’t like him. But more of a he isn’t as far to our liking overall.
Oooh, I’d love to see what stupid shit they are complaining about.
“Oh no! We are going to have healthcare again! Stop him!”
something something he kept a “genocide supporter” on his cabinet
note, the biggest compliant about him from the other side is that he has too many pro-palestinians in his cabinet
Yeah, I’m also liking Mamdani. However, I may be traumatized because I don’t completely trust the situation. What did Mamdani tell Trump to make Trump support him so quickly? Trump did a 180 over night, and I want to know how Mamdani did that…
Edit: I get that Trump is impressionable, fickle, and a boy of truly weak resolve. Yet, I still want to know what Mamdani did… not what we took advantage of. What was said?
trump will literally agree with anyone he spends an hour talking to. He said he and walz had similar thoughts on what to do in ministota.
Trump is barking seal that agrees with any man that is in the same room as him.
Trump is ridiculously easy to manipulate. Just use the right words and butter him up and he’ll think you’re his buddy.
Exactly. Mamdani came prepared, and Trump was caught off guard by how nice and eloquent the dangerous communist was.
I genuinely think its because Trump, and all of his supporters, are colossal pussies when actually challenged and defeated by someone willing to fight them.
If Mamdani made any concession, you’d never hear Trump and his cult not talking about it.
Instead Trump publicly sucked Mamdani’s cock and MAGA is pretending it never happened.
Expanding on what others have answered, Trump is extremely suggestible due to dementia. He literally just agrees with whoever told him something last because he can’t think on his own anymore.
That’s why it’s even more vital to get rid of fascist advisors like Steven Miller than it is to get rid of Trump himself.
trump will say anything. he doesn’t support mamdani, at least not in action. but trump wants to be popular and for people to like him, so he will attach himself to anything successful. he loved the new england patriots until the kansas city chiefs became the dynasty to beat. suddenly he was talking about patrick mahomes constantly.
the criticism for that meeting should purely go on mamdani allowing his brand to be attached to a fascist. but that gets into that electoralism will never save us because politicians who play political games to curry favor are inherently compromised. however, the value of electoralism is that it can help us put people who will allow us to organize on the margins in office as we grow our movement
i saw it as a genius move, anyone on the left with half a brain should have realized he was just making a fool of trump.
and the cognitive dissonance generated by such a public whiplash change of face on “some dirty communist muslim” might have been jarring enough to disillusion a couple magats
Trump can’t afford to dislike anyone overwhelmingly popular.
All you have to do is mildly flatter Trump and then he’s your best friend
Trump can’t hate on Mamdani too much, lest he becomes a folk hero.
I’ve yet to see any negative headlines about Mamdani ever since hr won election
Seeing the tankies talk about him on .ml would make you think he was leading the 4the Reich.
Well yeah, it depends exactly what kind of social bubble you are in. If you are in a right wing bubble, you would be led to believe that Mamdani is a woke Muslim terrorist commie.
I believe he banned raspberry pi devices, which is dumb.
Edit: they were banned from an event, not banned in general.
From the inauguration, which is kinda weird but understandable if you’re not very tech savvy. He didn’t ban them from new york in general
Ah, that makes much more sense. Going back to double check things, I article I saw user the wording “he banned them at the inauguration”, which I understood at “during his inauguration, he signed a bylaw which banned raspberry pi devices”.
Thanks for the correction!
Seeing the tankies talk about him on .ml would make you think he was leading the 4the Reich.
Source: I made it up
I’ve seen many that are skeptical that he’ll stick to his promises but I don’t think any of that crowd would disagree that he was clearly the best option and a big step forward.
The popular tankie influences have soured a bit on him and that sentiment flows down. I think Mamdani said against the protestors shouting globalize the intifada outside of a synagogue which pissed off tankies.
I’ve seen tankies trying to call him fascist on lemmy, and I called them out and said how wrong they are. They responded by calling me a zionist and accusing me of supporting genocide…
These are not rational people arguing in good faith…
I’d love to see the link. You’ve got over 1k comments in 30 days or I’d look for it on your profile.
I don’t save links to every comment I ever read, don’t be ridiculous.
My comment history has nothing to do with it. Admitting to stalking my profile doesn’t prove any point.
Huh? I wasn’t trying to stalk you, you said you had run into them so I took a peek.
Found the tankie
Thanks for the links to the posts/comments backing up your statement. Really made me think.
Seriously, compared to all the great specific references you made! Good for calling that shit out!
I mean, here’s a Hexbear thread about him winning.
https://hexbear.net/post/6637842?sort=Top
They’re skeptical that he’ll stay principled but nobody there is saying he’s the next coming of Hitler.
Let’s stop using all ai chatbots. That shit is harming earth.
Good luck arguing that my local AI models are harming Earth.
Yes, you can argue phones themselves/lightbulbs harm Earth. I don’t care at that scale.
Username checks out.
Are you perchance ignoring the petawatt-hours that were needed to train and distil your local AI model?
Yes, it is already developed. Nuclear bombs killed people, does not mean we should stop all research into fusion.
Me downloading the model does not light up a data center somewhere else. I run it on my local laptop.
No. No no no. It is still being developed, with exponentially increasing resources. You downloading the model adds at least 1 but probably 10 increment to the “downloads” and repo watches CEOs 100% use to validate their insane echo chamber. And you’re literally paying for it all if you live in US and they built a data center in your neighborhood and your electricity bill 4x increased! Or if you ever want to upgrade to ddr5, and ever need more storage space! Or in many other myriad of ways!
Generally, you’re right, it’s just the left over tools from the gold rush, why not use them if they’re useful! No point in throwing them away. It’s good that you’re honest with yourself and will never validate the wild amounts of cosmically ironic cancer-inducing data centers they (I hope only Musk) are operating, by upgrading your local model distilled by your unfavorite AI cloud company that is negative profit for 5 years and somehow still alive
Well, if I want to do anything worthwhile, I sure as fuck will have to at some point for the Clawd agent. Will probably need a server of my own as well. The desire for solar is more for independence, than environmental reasons anyway.
Oh, you’re right. Everything being plugged into massive datacenters that use more power than whole countries is ok, because your computer somehow doesn’t use much power per query. I stand corrected, sir.
A model being local doesn’t make it magically better than cloud based ones. Especially since your local hardware may not be as optimized as professional hardware.
And I say that as a local AI user.
The way to make it less harmful mainly comes from external factors :
- The origin of the electricity (renewable)
- Shift consumption to a time of low demand (or use a residential battery)
- Use specialized hardware for specific tasks (use less energy per token)
Edit:
I’d add to that that you can reuse the heat generated to heat your apartment. But it only works during winter, as during summer any heat generated will make your AC (if you have one) work harder.
Yeah, I tend to do a bench test on my Laptop to heat myself up. It’s really neat!
No, I don’t have a gaming rig. It’s not going above 65W, and I actually have an ideological reason I want to switch to solar power too.
Soon, my local AI’s will be solar powered as well, and offline.
Sadly, so far I have the capability to only charge my Tablet and phone, which are actually decent for AI in their own right.
Better than a benchmark, you should try Boinc or Folding@Home.
Heating by science.
There was this citizen science project where few tried to manually fold proteins. Unfortunately, the computer was better than us at it, and we didn’t contribute much. I sucked. However, I contributed my PC resources for a rather short while to some random cancer research project. I don’t remember the details, I figured it was a better use of idle computer time than mining bitcoins.
Boy was I wrong.
This is the kind of waste, fraud, and abuse that Elon was supposed to be getting rid of.
DOGE was Federal not Local
It was costing the administration around half a million dollars.
How? Surely this was put in place as a cost cutting measure. I mean, terminate it, sure. Pay actual humans. I just have questions.
Because Eric Adams was a terrible mayor who clearly used the mayoral office to pass lucrative contracts to his friends and enrich himself.
At least thats what his chumminess with Trump and his bribery scandal would suggest to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigations_into_the_Eric_Adams_administration
Often the promised cost savings never materialise, because when the chatbot fucks up, it’s humans who need to clean up the mess.
it’s short sighted, because an ai chat bot that can answer basic surface level questions 24/7 should absolutely be more cost effective than having staff field the same questions. You can have half of them be the escalation point and assign different work to the other half. For the population of NYC this is the right approach.
However I would accept that the previous administration was corrupt and overpaid an incompetent contractor. Mamdani should restart the project, not scrap it.
The only way a chatbot can accurately answer basic level questioning is if staff has put in time to do the documentation. If they have, you frequently don’t even need the chatbot because simple web searches will show up the question and answer or one of the major chatbots will have already indexed the documentation and can answer the question for free.
it was eric adams.
Oh, look, a leader leading…how strange, not beholden to anything but his constituents? I love this guy.
We’re not used to seeing that around here. Feels a bit odd.
The chatbot, which was released by the Eric Adams administration in fall of 2023, was meant to provide business owners with an accessible way to check city rules and regulations. But as first documented by The Markup and THE CITY, the bot provided answers that, if followed, would lead to illegal behavior by businesses, like taking a cut of employees’ tips.
It’s insane that public institutions make contracts based on promises or hopes. They should be with minimum requirements to be met by the contracted, or not cost in full.
Would the company still go for the contract? Maybe. At least they’d have to eat cost when they can’t meet a defined baseline, effectively taking responsibility to a degree.
