• NekoKoneko@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3 months

    Relatedly, Hisense also forces updates and disables use of the TV if you do not accept the update (via a full screen non-cancelable prompt).

    I learned this the hard way after Hisense broke my TV via an update that I didn’t want and then refused to fix it even after 6 months of escalations and emails.

    • henfredemars@infosec.pubEnglish
      3 months

      They’re not alone, either. I had to downgrade my Visio just to use the features that it shipped with. I’m sure this is illegal, but no one cares unless you’re rich.

      • NekoKoneko@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        I outright told them it’s illegal, since they are unilaterally altering the terms of any T&C agreements when we started using the TV and materially interfering with our ownership and use of the TV we purchased. They didn’t care. I then sent it to our state attorney general and nothing happened.

        • rainwall@piefed.socialEnglish
          3 months

          You can likely sue them in small claims court. Many states let you file for a couple hundred dollars and will give you 3x damages if you win.

          The most likely outcome is they settle when the court date approaches or dont show and you win hy default.

          • FudgyMcTubbs@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3 months

            There was a guy in Texas who thought a big tobacco company would settle out without showing, but instead he got counter sued to the tune of millions. That man? Rusty Shackleford.

            There’s a good documentary about it.

    • roofuskit@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      I know they’re different manufacturers, but TCL tried this shit and I just factory reset and never setup the Internet on it. I use an android TV box for the smarts.

      • NekoKoneko@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        Unfortunately the firmware was the issue, not just OS software. So factory-resetting didn’t help us. But yeah, that definitely radicalized me to the “never connect it to the internet” camp for future TVs.

        • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 months

          Buying the TV and then not connecting it still rewards the bad behavior.

          We have to boycott these fucks and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.

          • NekoKoneko@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3 months

            I mean, that’s great in theory. But the amount of manufacturers of non-smart TVs is tiny, and if you are interested in the best panels and display technology, refresh rates for gaming, etc (even removing affordability), it’s very very hard to just boycott if you want to have a modern TV at all.

          • moonshadow@slrpnk.netEnglish
            3 months

            Getting the ad-subsidized tech without the ads sounds like a win to me

            • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3 months

              [Citation needed]

              There is zero fucking evidence whatsoever that the alleged “savings” from the ad “subsidy” are getting passed to the consumer.

            • CileTheSane@lemmy.caEnglish
              3 months

              You are paying for features you don’t use (such as Internet access). That’s not a win.

              • applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                3 months

                They’re saying the company may be selling the device for less than the cost to produce it expecting the low price to draw in consumers while their predatory ads rake in much more money, so buying it and never connecting it means they took a loss. I’m skeptical that companies would do that these days. More likely they overcharge for the physical hardware AND have predatory ad software, you know to maximize shareholder value.

                • CileTheSane@lemmy.caEnglish
                  3 months

                  Even if that were true, you’re still paying more than you would be for a “dumb” TV that doesn’t have those features. So everybody loses but the company selling the hardware still sees a sale. They lose a lot more if they pay the cost to produce and then never sell the device.

          • MasterBlaster@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3 months

            You’re implying there is an option other than not owning a TV. Please send us specifics so we can join you.

            • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3 months

              You used to be able to still buy ‘dumb’ TVs from Sceptre up until a year or so ago, but even they’ve stopped selling them now. (I’m kicking myself for not buying one when I had the chance…)

              But the important part of my comment was this:

              and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.

              • MasterBlaster@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2 months

                It’s happening, but do you really believe a bunch of nonprofit low income “woke” “DEI” loving hippies are going to lobby more effectively than billion dollar corporations - er, sorry, PEOPLE - will lobby? These people literally bankroll candidates for office to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and have hundreds of lawyers to pick apart any resistance.

                Sure, lobby. Just understand we are just continuing the fight on principle, not because it will have any impact.

                We can’t give up, but we aren’t going to win, short of a literal uprising and even then it’s probably just going to remove the lipstick from this political pig, and the pretense of “for the people” will fall away.

      • triptrapper@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        I got a TCL last year and it wouldn’t let me use the TV until I set up the internet. After 4 factory resets I figured out how to put it in store demo mode, and plugged in a separate streaming device that connects to the internet. Now I realize I could have connected the TV to the internet and then blocked it at the network level.

        • Peffse@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 months

          If you are using a network level block, make sure it’s a black hole and not just a DNS filter. I tried a DNS filter with a Roku and found that they bypass it with hardcoded values, even when the DNS server was statically assigned and DHCP assigned.

          • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
            3 months

            Wait till they start paying netflix to relay data for them :)

          • HumbleBragger@piefed.socialEnglish
            3 months

            What you mean by black hole and filter? I blocked a bunch of tcl domains on my pihole and made my router drop everything in port 53 coming from every other device that wasn’t pihole. It seems to have worked for now… Is that a good solution?

            • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3 months

              Pi-hole blocks the name resolution. TV wants to go to Hisense.com, asks your Pi-hole where that site is. Your Pi-hole sees that Hisense is on a block list, so it says back to your TV “sorry, no idea how to get to that site, it must be offline.”

              If the manufacturer wants to get around this, they program a public DNS in, like 8.8.8.8, or they hardcode the static IP for their website into the TV. Now when it wants to go to Hisense, it never has to ask your Pi-Hole where that site is, and it doesn’t get blocked. Heck, it probably won’t even show up on your Pi-hole’s logs.

              If you black hole the site, then any traffic going out there gets dropped, and the hard-coded addresses on the TV don’t matter for shit.

                • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  3 months

                  Your Pi-hole can only block the things that query DNS. Try this, ping a website you don’t normally go to, and you should see that show up in Pihole log. Next, ping an IP, I usually pick on 8.8.8.8, and see if that shows up in your Pi-hole’s logs. I’m fairly confident it won’t.

                • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  3 months

                  Best I can do is Google it and read it to you. I’m a little knowledgeable about how a pihole works since I have my Net+, and I’ve set up a few Pi-hole’s (or the same one a few times tbh), but I’m definitely not a networking expert.

            • matlag@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              3 months

              No, it’s not robust. It may work for your TV, but it can be worked around.

              DNS is like a phone directory for Internet: it translates domain name to IP addresses. If you block the DNS (what pihole does), it blocks the directory access. But if the IP address of the servers are hard-coded in the firmware, the TV does not need a DNS, it can reach the server directly.

              To trick the TV, you need to restrict the IPs it can reach. It might be delicate: it probably tries to ping some comme IPs to check it’s connected, then call the brand’s server for ads/updates/etc.

        • FG_3479@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 months

          Their Google TV models have a basic mode which lets you use it without internet with no bypassing.

          • reddig33@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3 months

            As do the Roku TCL models. I currently have mine disconnected and plan to keep it that way.

      • OR3X@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        Unfortunately manufacturers are starting to get wise to this as well. I recently bought a new Vizio smart TV with no intentions of connecting it to the internet and during the initial setup it kept very persistently insisting that it needed to be connected and after setup it constantly bitches at me that it’s not connected.

      • zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        3 months

        I did the same thing, their bullshit ad infested updates were the final straw,

    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.todayEnglish
      3 months

      My mom has a Hisense TV (because my parents invariably buy the very cheapest they can. They’d get a B&W if they could), and it just started something new - on start up, it now shows a static page of color wash, then you choose a channel. It doesn’t start on the same channel you turned off last night. Must be a new update came through. She let it sit on the screensaver all day, because it never occurred to her to try to change the channel.

      Not a big deal, but weird, and NOBODY asked for this.

    • leoj@piefed.zipEnglish
      3 months

      Was gonna say, LG does the same thing.

      So far my only TV that hasn’t forced things in an absurd way has been my Sony… Guess what Sony just did? (Sold their Bravia TV line to TCL…)

      • [object Object]@lemmy.caEnglish
        3 months

        I’ve never connected my LG TVs to the internet and they work pretty well.

        I hear you can jailbreak them, which is appealing to me.

        • leoj@piefed.zipEnglish
          3 months

          No shit? I might have to try that, only problem is my spouse will kill me if I break it… (primary TV)…

        • njordomir@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 months

          Are people loading AOSP on there or something? I’m tired of the telemetry and ads LG built in, but my blocklists have seemed to block one of my LG TVs from working. I have a disabled adult in my home and I think Kodi might be too complex for them.

          • PieMePlenty@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3 months

            Nothing like Android no. You get the ability to install apps not available in the webOS store, homebrew basically. This is useful for running hyperion (open source project) for driving your own LEDs behind the TV for ambiance. I haven’t peeked in that scene in a year or two but last time I did, the latest TV’s or latest updated TV’s were not easily hackable.

      • PieMePlenty@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        Sony offloaded manufacturing to TLC. They made a joint venture and TLC gets to manufacture and distribute them, Sony does development. Sony still has control. What we may see in the future is build quality decline. I doubt it’s gonna effect the software much.

        • leoj@piefed.zipEnglish
          3 months

          Mine definitely does, disables applications and will lock the screen on update demand if you go long enough. At the bottom of the tv says it LG.

      • NekoKoneko@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        Would have loved to. It was just over one year (right after the warranty ended as well), though.

        • frongt@lemmy.zipEnglish
          3 months

          Is that your card issuer’s policy? I’ve done a chargeback past a year.

          • Peekashoe@lemmy.wtfEnglish
            3 months

            I am trying to recall, I think I did look and it was past the time period. I should have tried. It’s +2 years now, though.

    • midas22@lemmy.wtfEnglish
      3 months

      Hisense are also selling their TVs with different specs on different markets which is really annoying. In the United States you get Google TV but in Europe you get the awful Vidaa OS where you can’t install Google Play Store. And the big national TV streaming apps are missing in their own app store where I live.

      I talked to a retail seller and he said that they ultimately had to stop selling them because they got so many complaints and returns. Maybe it’s a licensing issue or something but it’s just such a braindead decision that is damaging the brand.

    • amorpheus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      My Hisense got worse in some ways after an update, support provided a file to get the previous firmware back and told me to disable updates. ¯\(ツ)/¯

      • NekoKoneko@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        Funny story, they actually did this to me before this all happened, and I was on a “I’m never going to update again” beta firmware that they gave me a link to, when the forced-update happened that broke my wifi. I didn’t disable any ADB-level processes, and I don’t think the system let me disable updates.

      • partial_accumen@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        If anyone remembers the cyberpunk 80s TV show Max Headroom, then they know that TV was everywhere all the time in that universe. There was a scene in one episode where the police enter a suspect’s home and discover that she had an off switch on her TV. The cops react in shock to the fact, and one of them says “She’ll get twenty years for that.”

        This universe also had “blipverts” which were a type of ad (advert…advertisement) that directly accessed your brain’s motivation to get you to buy something. The only problem was that blipverts also had a high chance of killing the people that watched it.

        This was a TV show from almost 40 years ago now and it looks like these would be the things that are coming in the next few years from now.

        • rbos@lemmy.caEnglish
          3 months

          The torment nexus is very profitable.

        • Rusty@lemmy.caEnglish
          3 months

          The idea is even older. Orwell described telescreens - mandatory television with no off switch 77 years ago.

        • JcbAzPx@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 months

          The blipverts were also several hours of ads in less than a second, which was the part that could kill you.

          • partial_accumen@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3 months

            I loved in the story of that episode that the TV execs learned that blipverts could kill their audience, and briefly switched back to adverts, but when sales fell they went back to blipverts knowing the danger because it was more profitable. The writers of that show nailed a corporate dystopian future.

            Our own hope was our protagonist Edison Carter “live and direct from Network 23”…who was also part of the giant corporate machine.

      • a4ng3l@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        As a 80s kid I don’t recall being hyped. If anything all sci-fi books were warnings for us. Younger generations embraced the black mirror shit thought.

        • ChicoSuave@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 months

          Somewhere between Snow Crash and Hackers it became the dream instead of the nightmare.

          • a4ng3l@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3 months

            True for hackers… Somehow it started my career… but snow crash feels a bit like Uber-gig which isn’t what I would look forward to.

      • xerxes@piefed.socialEnglish
        3 months

        Except a lot less fun. That one at least had cool lights, cool buildings, and flying cars. We got rotting infrastructure and Teslas.

      • MasterBlaster@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        I actually commented on that somewhere. Cyberpunk is a good example of authors warning us of dystopian possibilities, not glorifying them.

    • EndlessNightmare@reddthat.comEnglish
      3 months

      I no longer get excited about new tech. For the most part, I feel like we peaked about 10 years ago. Medical advances are the outlier and represent real benefit, but consumer electronics are getting enshittified.

      • Vakbrain@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        3 months

        Until sept 2026…

        Do you really think Google will approve those APKs once they have fully lockdown android (that includes Google TV)?

        That’s why this push from google to kill the APK installation without their blessing infuriates me!

        https://keepandroidopen.org/

        • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
          3 months

          yeah, we’ll be working on grapheneOS tv boxes in a years time.

            • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
              3 months

              HDMI + A presentation mouse and bluetooth keyboard on an old Pixel?

              • Know_not_Scotty_does@lemmy.worldEnglish
                3 months

                A totally valid option I had not considered. Imo, the solution needs to be controlled by a standard remote. I tried for a couple years to get my family to use a media pc that used a media keyboard and no one would touch it. I turned it into a server and streamed to emby and now they will use it but only after I showed them it works even when the internet is down.

                • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
                  3 months

                  I TOTALLY feel you. I’ve wanted a good media remote for ages. seems like a project to repurpose a bluetooth remote to control a phone would be medium low difficulty

    • Lawnman23@piefed.socialEnglish
      3 months

      I don’t have an Android tv but if that day ever comes, very glad options like these exist.

    • Janx@piefed.socialEnglish
      3 months

      That’s great, but people who don’t already own one shouldn’t support this garbage company.

      • Know_not_Scotty_does@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        No doubt. The market is shriveling up for people who want a new tv that isn’t garbo. Outside of commercial displays which are like 3-4x as expensive and have lower image quality, I don’t know of anyone making dumb tvs in a 55" plus size. Yes, you can opt not to hook them up to the internet but in a house with non-tech people, its a huge hassle to get them to want to use anything other than the built in apps. Even diy set top boxes running on a pi or shield are not as user friendly for kids or grandparents.

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.caEnglish
    3 months

    Okay, so strike Hisense products from the list of brand I’ll ever buy from

      • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        This is why, for years, I’ve been trying to point out that “if you don’t like it, just don’t buy it” isn’t good enough. Boycotts aren’t enough; we have to force the law to change to prohibit the abusive corporate behavior.

        • Broken@lemmy.mlEnglish
          3 months

          I agree 100%. Nothing we do is good enough because it’s a game of cat and mouse. They do something, people react. They do something else, they react.

          Right now I own a Hisense because it’s 75" and cost me $300. It has a decent enough picture and sound. Works for all of my uses.

          It has never seen the internet nor will it. I use my 6 year old shield for apps, mostly of which is my own content.

          In case they decide to use any subsidiary or or partner tech company to daisy chain internet (I don’t put it past any of these guys) I have a blacklist on my firewall that catches most stuff trying to go out.

          I have done everything I can, but it won’t be enough at some point.

          They won’t stop until laws pass that stop them (actually stop them and not slap on the wrist).

      • Phoenixz@lemmy.caEnglish
        3 months

        Yeah

        It’s going to get really interesting to find a new TV once I want to buy one.

        A y brands left that won’t fuck me over with ads and what not?

  • pHr34kY@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3 months

    changing the TV’s DNS servers or disconnecting it from the internet entirely.

    Chiming in as an Australian budget VIDAA owner.

    I spotted that this TV attempts to query 8.8.8.8, regardless of your DNS settings. I implemented a port 53 (DNS) redirect so those queries get resolved by my local server.

    I also figured out which servers are serving up ads/tracking. I fired an email to Pete and got them added to his list. You’re welcome. I’m guessing a pi-hole would work with it.

    https://pgl.yoyo.org/adservers/serverlist.php

    I didn’t install the latest update, and probably never will. My TV contacts the unruly ACR servers, but the later firmware probably contacts nexxen.

    • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.netEnglish
      3 months

      People like you help to make the internet a better place — which matters a lot to me, because one of my most desperately held beliefs is that it is possible to take the hopefulness of the early internet and combine it with the wisdom of the last few decades to produce a more robust kind of hope

    • French75@slrpnk.netEnglish
      3 months

      attempts to query 8.8.8.8, regardless of your DNS settings.

      Streaming box / stream app makers have been working around local DNS for a long time. Sometimes of course they’re assholes that want to do shitty things and do this to make interdiction harder. But sometimes there are legitimate reasons. Ones I remember… users who don’t really understand what they’re doing can be overly aggressive with blocking and block things that are necessary for a particular service (causing support problems). Sometimes the ISPs DNS servers have shit performance, and using a well known commercial provider like cloudflare or google can improve performance at scale. It’s not always evil.

    • Passerby6497@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      I fear the day these fucks figure out DOH or something. Not sure there’s any way to suppress or intercept that, short of just blocking all external traffic to the TV.

      • pHr34kY@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        You need plain DNS to resolve the DoH server. Just block that.

        • cley_faye@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 months

          Setting up DoH, I already provide the expected name AND an IP. No need for plain DNS at any step. There’s no reason a corporate TV can’t do that either.

            • cley_faye@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3 months

              And when your TV lock you out because it can’t connect to that specific IP that you blocked to prevent it from calling home, what do you do?

    • patruelis@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      Thank you for this. I will check later today on my own tv to see what its pulling in the background.

  • Atlas_@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3 months

    IF YOU BUY ANY TV, DO NOT CONNECT IT TO THE INTERNET.

    Televisions were never meant to be smart devices. There’s no reason your screen should have software of its own. That would be like your face having a mind of its own.

    Ummm, <eldrich horror rant text>

    • Ajen@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      3 months

      Cell modems are getting cheaper and cheaper, it’s only a matter of time before cheap smart TVs will flood the market with always-on telemetry and intrusive personalized ads.

        • jmf@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          3 months

          Like the other comment said, if you drive a car made after 2014, don’t bother. You drive a rolling tracking beacon regardless of what you do with your smart devices…

      • Atlas_@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        That sounds like a great reason to return it and buy used lol

        • Ajen@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          3 months

          Until a few years later when all the used TVs have cell modems. The same thing is already happening in the used car market, it’s getting harder and harder to find a reliable vehicle that doesn’t have a cell modem and a long T&C that let’s them spy on you.

    • ManosTheHandsOfFate@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      I haven’t experience this myself but I’ve read that some newer TV’s are forcing you to connect to the internet before you can do anything else.

    • billwashere@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      Not to mention it seems like the apps on a smart tv get ignored when it comes to updates.

    • Greyghoster@aussie.zoneEnglish
      3 months

      The apps available on the TV may work when it’s new but quickly become nonfunctional because of a lack of updates. Best to use something else to stream, hopefully something more trustworthy.

  • Lighttrails@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    3 months

    I got a Hisense tv in November and never connected it to the internet. Now I am extremely pleased that I never connected it.

  • FrChazzz@lemmus.orgEnglish
    3 months

    I have a Hisense that I bought late last year and have never connected it to the internet (I stream everything through my PS5) and boyhowdy does that TV take every chance it gets to let me know I’m not connected lol

    • festus@lemmy.caEnglish
      3 months

      I can imagine future TVs refusing to work without an always-on internet connection.

        • canthangmightstain@lemmy.todayEnglish
          3 months

          … and exactly 2 weeks later modders will have figured out how to get their hands on the yummy free unlimited data inside it.

      • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        3 months

        It’s going right back to the shop, if that’s the case. Not accepting an HDMI input means it’s not fit for purpose.

      • Wispy2891@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        I saw an unboxing for a TV for a Chinese market and it refused to start until the owner paired it with a Chinese phone otp for “age verification” 😉

        • EndlessNightmare@reddthat.comEnglish
          3 months

          Getting outdated ads crammed down your throat for companies or products that no longer exist is a special kind of trolling.

    • fierysparrow89@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      This. Have played with similar devices in the past and I was surprised how many of these devices are running standard Linux kernel with some custom engineered distros. Projects like Buildroot, OpenWRT, Busybox and a few others are what the vendors use to roll their own builds.

      A few of them agressively lock down the bootloaders in an attempt to (try to) prevent people from owning the device they’ve paid retail price for. Many don’t really bother. The good news is, that such measures are relatively easy for experts to circumvent and break down. This, of course, is not cheap, but needs to happen only once, often for more than a single model. Some kind of bounty-based system could provide incentive and financing for such efforts.

    • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      3 months

      I believe some custom firmware for TVs exist, the issue is that they are relatively new pieces of tech, while routers have existed for a comparatively long time.

    • MunkysUnkEnz0@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      Personally, I use computer monitors. They’re cheap enough. 32 inch ultra wide. 36 inch. They’re only getting larger and cheaper.

      As for remote control, I hook it up to the computer and use unified remote.

      • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3 months

        At this point I consume most media literally on my computer or my phone, but I still want there to be a good solution for a big living room TV (50"+ range). I have yet to see any reasonable ‘computer monitor’ option for that.

        The other problem with using a monitor as a TV, BTW, is that they often don’t have built-in speakers.

        • T156@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3 months

          A projector might be an option, but they have their own problems, like with the contrast not being great.

    • Great Blue Heron@lemmy.caEnglish
      3 months

      I’ve got a Sony and even it’s showing home screen ads - normally it’s just “suggestions” for shows on streaming services I don’t have, but the occasional car ad also comes through. I have a theory that the reason Sony are getting out of the TV business is that they don’t want to develop their own TV OS and they’re sick of their customers complaining about the ads in Google’s OS.

      I’m about to get a 2nd one and I’m seriously considering a computer monitor hooked up to a mini PC running XBMC or something.

    • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3 months

      I used to recommend Sceptre, but even they appear to have stopped making dumb TVs now too.

      • HowAbt2day@futurology.todayEnglish
        3 months

        I haven’t had a Tv in years but because I wanna be cool or some shit but I don’t want to have one of these intrusive machines in the middle of my house. I already have enough of those.

    • Buelldozer@lemmy.todayEnglish
      3 months

      The easy answer is to use commercial displays. They are more expensive and may not have the latest tech BUT they last longer and don’t do the spyware shenanigans.

  • Eager Eagle@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3 months

    I bought mine a few years ago, never connected to the internet, never had a problem.

    Now I’m definitely never connecting it.